Water in the Flywheel area

[Brokk]

I have a 1969 JD400 that is feeling its age. It got a lot of love from me when I first bought it about 7-8 years ago, but in the last couple years I just haven't been using it much and therefore upkeep hasn't been a priority.

3 years ago the starter was going, so I had it rebuilt. It looked like new and fired up wonderfully. I didn't use the tractor much in the last year and honestly I hadn't even started it in the last 6 months or more. Now it won't start. I finally traced it down to the starter, which still looks clean and in great shape, so I was having trouble believing the most recent thing I had worked on was the source of the problem.

When I finally pulled it off, about 1/2 liter of water came pouring out of it. There are also signs of rust inside the flywheel area. I have no clue how much water got inside there or where it might have flowed to. Any suggestions about trying to get the water out? I figure this is something I should try to address before I get the starter re-repaired and back on the tractor. I know the hydraulic fluid doubles at the transmission oil, so I could drain all that out. I just don't know if that will do it, or if I need to pour in new fluid to flush out the old or if there are several other things I should be doing as well or instead of.

Any suggestions that don't involve taking the tractor apart in the middle are welcome.

 

[flyerdan]

Never mind

 

[Tx Jim]

I see no drain hole in clutch housing on a model 400. See photo below.

 

[Brokk]

I see no drain hole in clutch housing on a model 400. See photo below.

I've checked the repair manual as well as the parts diagram on the clutch side (as you show in the photo) as well as the flywheel side and there is no mention of a drain hole. I'll climb under the tractor this morning to take a look. I've found the manual to be an excellent resource, but they sometimes leave out some rather obvious stuff.

The flywheel side parts list does mention two different plugs (#7 & #9), but they don't clearly show where they go.

 

[oosik]

You have "plain water" coming out. Move your tractor to an area where the rain will not get to it. I've pulled that drain plug on my tractor a couple of times - nothing. Either that or wash the tractor with your garden hose - quit running it thru your pond.

 

[Brokk]

As for the water, if it isn't coolant which is unlikely based on the rust, it's probably rain getting in somewhere.

There is a plastic seal/gasket between the solenoid and the starter motor housing that looks aged and has small cracks in several places. I would have thought this was replaced with the starter rebuild so I'm rather flummoxed that it would have degraded so quickly over three years. I can't see any other opening that would allow water to get into starter. There was no sign of rust where the starter bolts to the flywheel housing, so the water did not leak in through there.

 

[Brokk]

You have "plain water" coming out. Move your tractor to an area where the rain will not get to it. I've pulled that drain plug on my tractor a couple of times - nothing. Either that or wash the tractor with your garden hose - quit running it thru your pond.

It's a big tractor (IMO) and I don't have any structure that could possibly house it. I'm very good about covering it with tarp in the winter, because there are definitely occasions here in the NorthEast where I need to get it running to help with snow relocation in bad years. However during the summer I don't tend to keep it covered. If I do, it encourages small animals to nest in it and there are always areas of the tarp where water will gather and become breeding grounds for mosquitoes.

Before the starter rebuild, leaving the tractor outside in the rain was never an issue. This machine was built for field work and shouldn't be bothered by sitting out in a summer rain storm. My biggest concern about weathering was degradation to the hydraulic lines. I had to replace quite a few of them when I first got the tractor as the old ones were deteriorating and blowing out on me.

 

[Brokk]

Update:
I dropped off the starter at the repair place this morning. The repair tech mentioned the abnormally high amount of rain we have gotten over the summer. He also pointed out a very small hole near the top that water could easily get in through. Apparently when they rebuild starters they assume the starter will be under a hood or otherwise "inside" a vehicle and protected from elements like rain and snow. When I pointed out that it's a tractor and outside 365 he said this time they will take steps to treat any openings with silicone to weather proof it. He did say condensation inside the starter can still cause problems with the brushes and it should be used more regularly to prevent those issues. Honestly, I don't think even if I started it up for 1/2 hour every 2 weeks it would have prevented the starter from dying with all that water in it...

 

[jaxs]

Update:
I dropped off the starter at the repair place this morning. When I pointed out that it's a tractor and outside 365 he said this time they will take steps to treat any openings with silicone to weather proof it. He did say condensation inside the starter can still cause problems with the brushes and it should be used more regularly to prevent those issues..

It is wise to leave an open hole near bottom so that condensation can drain.

 

[Brokk]

There should be a drain hole in the bottom of the bell housing (which usually has a cotter pin in it) that allows moisture and oil seepage to drain out. The cotter pin is to jiggle around and keep it from gumming up.

@flyerdan - I would just like to say you were absolutely correct. 100% spot on in your description and everything. Good job!

When you first wrote this I kept thinking I had seen something like that before. Yesterday when I climbed under and verified which section was the flywheel housing, sure enough, dead center at the bottom is a hole with a cotter pin head sticking out. It jiggles around nicely, so I assume there is nothing gumming up the hole.

I always assumed any place with moving parts had some sort of lubricant in there to keep the parts moving smooth. Grease, oil, graphite, silicone, something... The flywheel doesn't seem to have any of that and in fact this hole should allow anything liquidy to just run out the bottom (thank goodness I don't have to worry about separating the water from my transmission oil...). Should I treat the flywheel with anything before sealing it up when I get my starter back? WD40 perhaps? (yes I read the other thread, which is what brought that solution for my water problem to mind)