Wanting to move to Mid-West/Plains area.

[DerekF]

Will try not to take up to much time with all the background information. Sorry if I do.

Right now I’m a rural northern AZ born and raised, and now I’m having and raising my own kids. I have two years left of my education needed to become a public school teacher. My wife is doing the same and is equally as far along. Now school teachers don’t make loads of money, especially not in Arizona, and I’m OK with that. Teachers get a lot of time off to be with their families (son of two school teachers) and I find that just as important as making a good living. It seems to have a decent balance...

Anyway, in about 4-5 years we are going to be in a good position to move out of state. Should be totally debt free (definitely free of any student loans upon graduation) with a decent surplus in the bank (already do, we’ve worked our butts off for it).

Living in northern AZ you get a little tired of the constant lack of grass (we do have more than the Phoenix area) and trees (definitely a lot more than the Phoenix area). The land is also expensive for being practically worthless. I want to live somewhere that I can #1 - live within 10-15 minutes max from town (town being somewhere with a gas station, school, grocery store, and post office) #2 affordable - wife and I should both be well into teaching careers at this point, so we’ll make a little money and would like to get 5-10 acres with some trees, a little space in between the neighbors, and beautiful green grass. #3’still very rural. I come from a Red Angus cattle ranching family on one side and a citrus farming family on the other. I am familiar with the agricultural lifestyle and want my kids to experience with it to. Extended family is in line to get the farms/ranches.

I’m not looking to do anything full time without a doubt, mostly just a hobby farm.

I guess getting to the point of the post - for those of you who live out there, what do you think of
It? Where do you live? What do you live? What do you hate? Any advice?

Thanks In advance!

 

[redman135]

When buying land WHO is LIABLE for pruning/removing trees planted under powerlines and on top of buried utilities?
Look at hedges if any on property. Are the trees growing in all directions because they planted too close togather and never thinned? You could get major sticker shock fixing someone else's mistake. Common problem in my area.
GET MAP of ALL water reticulation,(live and obselete if posibble) on the property.
If using power/electric fencing GET MAP. You need power input and switches marked(very important when you have a circut/loop input)

 

[RNeumann]

YouTube


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I look at stuff like this when we were thinking of moving. I also look up tax rates, median income etc. I believe it’s federal law, but if not most states post the wages for public employees like teachers, cops etc and I’d study those. Understand the relation of house cost/living expenses to wages. Making $100,000 a year may sound good, but if it takes $1,000,000 to buy a house it’s not so good (10x yearly salary). Where as another place may pay $50,000/yr but the same house is $200,000 (4x yearly salary). You can look up the prices of gas and electricity too.

We also spend a lot of time traveling to different places- road trips, RV trips and we would fly to areas and rent a car. Beyond pretty areas we went out of our way to interact with people. How do conversations go with a checker at the store, or a waitress? How do public bathrooms look? Etc etc. It’s impossible to pick a spot for you. But I can share our process. We ended up about 1200 miles away from where we were born. And we made the move mid careers.

Good luck and enjoy the process! Debt free is a good place to be. That changed our lives too- makes a move like this very possible and actually enjoyable.

 

[coobie]

We live in southern Michigan been here my whole life.I love northeast Iowa kind of hilly and not a lot of people.If I could get the wife to move there I would in a heart beat.

 

[ArlyA]

When buying land WHO is LIABLE for pruning/removing trees planted under powerlines and on top of buried utilities?
Look at hedges if any on property. Are the trees growing in all directions because they planted too close togather and never thinned? You could get major sticker shock fixing someone else's mistake. Common problem in my area.
GET MAP of ALL water reticulation,(live and obselete if posibble) on the property.
If using power/electric fencing GET MAP. You need power input and switches marked(very important when you have a circut/loop input)

The company who owns the powerlines or pipelines are responsible for the brushing and pruning of there right of way. At least that's the way it is in MI.

 

[shooterdon]

Stay away from areas that experience a lot of tornadoes and/or floods. Living in northern MI, snow does not bother me but it may bother others. Heat kills me but I do not need A/C where I am. Nice to have a pond or stream...I had to build a pond. Check out how deep you need to go for a well, as they can get expensive and some areas have crappy water. If the place has a well, check the quality. I wound up adding a $2500 system to address hardness and iron and still not happy with it.

If you can get property next to state land (my situation) you have a lot of "free" land to keep neighbors distant. I am very rural and it is not for everyone...women especially. 10 miles to gas station/conscience store, and auto repair shop....12 miles to PO, 25 miles to a town with shopping and hospital.

I tried living out here without a tractor for 6 years and it can be done but much easier with one. I burn wood so it helps processing, and it is my snow weapon with both a blower and blade.

 

[ArlyA]

We moved to the south shore of da BIG lake Superior for the mild temps year-around and consistent snow for XCing. We don't have air conditioning.

 

[Diggin It]

Be mindful of the Tickles family, Polly and Pauli. They can really screw things up if the wrong people get in power. Taxes, regulations, building and zoning codes and regulations. Some places won't even allow a portable shed without permits and inspections. Can't dig a hole for a plant without approval, put up an outdoor light, cut a tree branch, set your trash cans in the wrong place, etc.

Other places are almost free of that and you can clear acres, dig a pond or build a house without too much interference. I can do pretty much whatever I want and never even have to see the local honchos.

Watch vehicle regulations too. I hear nasty things about PA and their safety inspections for example. In some places, all operable vehicles are taxed whether they ever go on public roads or not. Other places only require plates for vehicles that do use public roads.

And check utility rates. Some places are much higher than others for electric and water. Many places do not have natural gas, so you need LP or other fuel storage.

How dependent are you on Internet? Some places have multiple options, while others have barely any high speed service at all. I have a fairly reliable 25M DSL, but my neighbor a mile down the road is 'too far' and can't get anything. There are still a lot of 'rural' areas that don't even get cell service.

 

[MossRoad]

We live in Norther Indiana. There's lots of flat land around here. But there are a few hilly areas in the continental divide zone that runs across norther Ohio clear over to NW Indiana. Southern Indiana has a lot more hills and is much more scenic, as is southern Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, southern Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, etc... If you stay west of lake Michigan you get much less snow. Still a lot of colder temps. East and south of the Great Lakes, you can at times, get dumped on. Again, those areas south of here are out of the snow bands from the lakes.

As for tornadoes, good luck trying to avoid those anywhere east of the Rockies. Anywhere in the areas you are considering is a target. Don't get complacent. Have a shelter and a sense of reality, and a good insurance policy.

Here's a map of all the tornadoes in a 61 year time span ranked by F-scale.



With that said, I've been within about 1/4 mile of 6 tornadoes in 50 years and have never seen one in my life. Have seen the destruction just a few blocks away. YIKES!

But I'd be more concerned with purchasing property in a flood zone than I would with tornadoes. A home in the valleys and hills (not at the top of a hill) is probably going to be less prone to tornado damage. And lighting damage. Lightning causes the most problems.

I'd also not have any large trees within falling distance of my home. While living in the woods is great, large trees can kill you in your sleep. Keep them at least 1.5 times their height away from you home. Plant some lower-growing ornamentals for shade and landscape.

The cost of living in Indiana is dirt cheap. One of the lowest in the country. Our public education system sucks! Except in areas where there are large subdivisions of wealthier people. Then you're living in an expensive area. So, if you want affordable housing, you'll get a sucky public school system. Better public schools = higher cost of living. It's that simple.

Good luck in your search.

 

[dougtrr2]

A lot of pieces of the puzzle to put together here. I wouldn't be in a big hurry to buy. Living in an area for a while will help you make a better choice. Midwest, worry about floods, not tornados. It is easy to avoid a flood risk by site selection. Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by a levee, they do fail. Are you sure you are ready for the climate change? Not global, but going from Arizona to a place with winters is going to be a major change. I was military and lived in several different places. Being born and raised in Iowa, I missed the change of the seasons in other places. Washington state was beautiful and green but the 200 days of overcast was depressing to me.

Since you are in education do your homework on the state retirement/benefit available. I am sure there are significant differences from state to state. Might as well get the best deal available. You might find some states offering incentives to teach in rural schools.

Doug in SW IA

 

[DerekF]

Are you sure you are ready for the climate change? Not global, but going from Arizona to a place with winters is going to be a major change. I was military and lived in several different places. Being born and raised in Iowa, I missed the change of the seasons in other places. Washington state was beautiful and green but the 200 days of overcast was depressing to me.
Doug in SW IA

Yeah so for those who are questioning if I’m willing to deal with snow, I’m no stranger to it. I live in the mountains, my hometowns elevation is 5650ft. We have a ski resort about 45 minutes from my house. I would say average temps this winter - lows probably around 20-25. Highs 40-45. Some nice warm days in between. I received 3 or 4 little snow storms this winter. 4-8 inches a piece. Only stuck around for about 3-4 days at max though, so not like I live in it not stop from November to April. Last winter was a lot harsher and a little bit farther on the other end (as in this winter was a little warm, last winter was a little cold, usually right in between) . We had at least 3-4 days and at least 3 times last winter where it was sub zero temps (-7 was the worst I remember) and the high all day was barely above 0. Most other days the lows were 5-15 degrees and the highs were 35-40. Also got a solid 18 inches of snow in my town in one storm last winter. Stuck around for at least a week.
They got much more further up the mountain.

Anyway, just to give you an idea that I’m not a desert rat (well, not Phoenix type desert, but high desert next to the largest ponderosa pine forest in at least the u.s.)

As for public education, I’ll definitely do my due diligence there.

Should have included this in my original post but I was falling asleep as I wrote it. The areas I’m think ing of are Missouri, East Kansas, East Nebraska, Maybe Northern Arkansas. Considering Indiana or Iowa. Illinois out of the question. Politics and land prices (that I have seen) won’t work for me.

The northern mid-west states are probably colder than I’d like to go, but not out of the question. Thanks for the feedback so far.

 

[fried1765]

Yeah so for those who are questioning if I’m willing to deal with snow, I’m no stranger to it. I live in the mountains, my hometowns elevation is 5650ft. We have a ski resort about 45 minutes from my house. I would say average temps this winter - lows probably around 20-25. Highs 40-45. Some nice warm days in between. I received 3 or 4 little snow storms this winter. 4-8 inches a piece. Only stuck around for about 3-4 days at max though, so not like I live in it not stop from November to April. Last winter was a lot harsher and a little bit farther on the other end (as in this winter was a little warm, last winter was a little cold, usually right in between) . We had at least 3-4 days and at least 3 times last winter where it was sub zero temps (-7 was the worst I remember) and the high all day was barely above 0. Most other days the lows were 5-15 degrees and the highs were 35-40. Also got a solid 18 inches of snow in my town in one storm last winter. Stuck around for at least a week.
They got much more further up the mountain.

Anyway, just to give you an idea that I’m not a desert rat (well, not Phoenix type desert, but high desert next to the largest ponderosa pine forest in at least the u.s.)

As for public education, I’ll definitely do my due diligence there.

Should have included this in my original post but I was falling asleep as I wrote it. The areas I’m think ing of are Missouri, East Kansas, East Nebraska, Maybe Northern Arkansas. Considering Indiana or Iowa. Illinois out of the question. Politics and land prices (that I have seen) won’t work for me.

The northern mid-west states are probably colder than I’d like to go, but not out of the question. Thanks for the feedback so far.

Your first 4 choices are ALL in the highest tornado areas!

 

[bigtiller]

Have you checked out the area around Payson Arizona? It sits in a valley surrounded by the Mogollon Rim and the Mazatzal Mountains.
It has 4 mild seasons and no wind. It sits at the 5000 foot elevation. Pine trees up the wazoo in the forested areas outside of town. Hundreds of people drive up from the Phoenix area on weekends to camp. Lake Roosevelt isn't too far away.
If I had to move, that area would be first on my list.

 

[DerekF]

Have you checked out the area around Payson Arizona? It sits in a valley surrounded by the Mogollon Rim and the Mazatzal Mountains.
It has 4 mild seasons and no wind. It sits at the 5000 foot elevation. Pine trees up the wazoo in the forested areas outside of town. Hundreds of people drive up from the Phoenix area on weekends to camp. Lake Roosevelt isn't too far away.
If I had to move, that area would be first on my list.

Payson, pinetop/lakeside, Vernon, Greer, Eager/Springerville would all be great places, but the thing is that the 5-10 acres I want will cost me 250-500,000 in those areas. Much more than I’ll ever afford. I’m pretty much in that neck of the woods. And I’ve been watching land and house prices since 2014. It’ll be hard to afford.

 

[Diggin It]

I came close to buying 9 acres for $9K, but I would have had to pay for the survey (another $2K), legal fees ($1K or so) and getting the badly overgrown area cleared (another $2K). Ultimately the bank told the guy he couldn't sell any portion of the property since he was in foreclosure. That was about half the going rate per acre. Land, taxes and other stuff are cheap in Lower Uncton.

 

[ovrszd]

Your first 4 choices are ALL in the highest tornado areas!

How bout those Hurricanes???? We don't have that....

 

[ovrszd]

I'm in NW Missouri. All of this State is green. Population density is of course near the two big cities, St Louis, KC. But Population generally increases South of I-70 too. As the population density increases so does land prices.

I am in one of the larger Counties in Missouri but only have a population of 8,500. Largest town is 3,500. Acreage land will range from $3,000 - $6,000 per acre.

I believe your income dollars will go much farther in the Northern end of this State. Come on over and I'll give you a tour.

 

[DerekF]

I'm in NW Missouri. All of this State is green. Population density is of course near the two big cities, St Louis, KC. But Population generally increases South of I-70 too. As the population density increases so does land prices.

I am in one of the larger Counties in Missouri but only have a population of 8,500. Largest town is 3,500. Acreage land will range from $3,000 - $6,000 per acre.

I believe your income dollars will go much farther in the Northern end of this State. Come on over and I'll give you a tour.

I have been to Missouri, first and last time I was there was last May. Ive done lots of looking around there online. If I ever come up with some money to make it back there before actually making a move, I might take you up on that. That’s more rural than me. I live in Navajo county in AZ. Navajo county is about the same size square milage-wise as Vermont (just looked it up and were slightly bigger) but we have 108,000 people, the towns around here average about 3-5000 people. Couple bigger towns with about 10,000 people, but still pretty rural. Anyway, sounds like it might be a little less dense and more spread out than it is here even.

Lots of people have mention tornadoes, which I was aware of, but just from first hand experience, are they even something to really consider when wanting to move out there? My mother has expressed concern about tornadoes out there and I have told her I’m not worried about it in the slightest, so what’s your experience with them?

P.S. I looked seriously at Lebenon MI for a while. Lebenon looks like it has a great school system with great athletics and the town seems like a pretty nice size, but definitely not stuck on it at all.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

OP,

We must be (distantly) related somehow.

I'm a native born Arizonan, from what would now be called "North Phoenix". When I was growing up there, it was well outside of the (then) city limits of Phoenix. Other than the 8 years I was away in active duty, I was a resident from early 60's through 2010, when we moved up here to ND.

I got sick of the big city, and all the @#&* transplanted folks that basically ruined the state of AZ. I grew up on a farm, in a rural area, and everyone I knew were rural folks. When I got back from active duty, it seemed like suddenly LA was in Phoenix now, and I hated it. Crime, pollution, traffic, gangs, drugs, crime (yeah 2xcrime). So we finally just took the plunge and moved.

We love ND. I will go back to visit AZ sometimes, when required (I still have some surviving family there), but we will never move back there again. You'd be surprised how quickly you will adapt to the smaller town and rural lifestyle. And how fast you adapt to the different weather. Yes, it gets cold here, but we're acclimated now, and today for example, it was almost 50 degrees outside, and we're running around in just shirts and jeans. It has to get down to freezing before we reach for a jacket now.

AZ is not what it once was. I don't blame you for wanting to leave. I consider it a lost cause, let the CA transplants have it.

 

[Diggin It]

Lots of people have mention tornadoes, which I was aware of, but just from first hand experience, are they even something to really consider when wanting to move out there? My mother has expressed concern about tornadoes out there and I have told her I’m not worried about it in the slightest, so what’s your experience with them?

They are extremely odd. I've had them within 5-10 miles both sides of me and both of those those paths have been hit more than once in the 20 years I've been here. There is just no explanation that anyone can come up with. If you look at that map above, you'll detect some brighter areas that mean more concentration. Some areas just get hit more often than others even in storm prone areas. It was long 'claimed' by many that bigger cities somehow tended to deflect them. That has been disproven with storms hitting Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, Dallas, Houston (if I recall correctly) and others. They can also strike in any month and state. You don't generally think of them in January, February, March and November, but they have had some of the most destructive.

They can destroy an entire town (Greensburg, KS, Moore, OK, Xenia, OH) or take one house out of a row.

The can travel a few hundred yards or many miles. The Nashville storm last Tuesday tracked just over 60 miles.