WalMart Shoplifting

[Bird]

I'm not disagreeing, Shawn. Laws get very complicated, and of course, even lawyers and judges disagree on the interpretation in many cases. And in this case, you might find it necessary to define "search". Are we talking about comparing your receipt to the merchandise in the cart, or to the merchandise in a bag, or are we talking about searching your person.

It's been many years since I moonlighted for one of the bigger department stores in Dallas to apprehend shoplifters. And back then, I only arrested those whom I had observed conceal something, and I waited until they went through the door out of the store before arresting them. That kind of a search is very different from what Sam's Club or Walmart does at the door with one of their own employees; not a government or law enforcement agent.

So, nope, you're not compelled by any law to submit to a "search" by Walmart employees and they're not compelled to allow you to leave the store with any merchandise that wasn't paid for.

And as you said, neither of us are lawyers, but if you're searched by a Walmart employee, you can sue the company, and you'll have one lawyer saying they were wrong and another lawyer saying they were right, and a judge or jury will decide, and who knows what they'll decide.

 

[Skyco]

I find it highly ironic that WalMart/Sams wants to check your receipt and purchases when leaving after you've paid when you might be stealing but then lets actual verified shoplifters go if it is less than $25

 

[Bird]

I find it highly ironic that WalMart/Sams wants to check your receipt and purchases when leaving after you've paid when you might be stealing but then lets actual verified shoplifters go if it is less than $25

I certainly agree with that. Our Walmarts used to have signs in the restrooms and I've forgotten the exact wording but something to the effect that shoplifting is not a prank, but is a crime and that Walmart prosecutes all shoplifters. I knew the signs disappeared quite some time ago, but didn't know they'd quit prosecuting.

 

[BillyP]

I've been known to be a bit of a "jerk" with a few of their other policies myself. After having been a regular customer in quite a few Walmarts, there was one (and only one) in which the cashier would ask to see my drivers license about every third time I was in there. No other Walmart had ever asked for other ID when I used a credit card. So I just wondered why, since it only happened occasionally, never when buying anything that cost more than a few dollars. So I sent an e-mail to Walmart's headquarters and a day or two later a fellow who identified himself as the manager of that store called me. He first told me they "always" asked when a credit card was used; a very obvious lie and I told him so. Then he told me they had to do it on every 5th customer; another lie. A couple of days later, a different fellow called and also identified himself as the manager of that store. He told me the computer randomly selected people to ask for ID. So the next time a cashier asked to see my drivers license, I said, "No" and walked out, leaving the merchanise sitting there (I hadn't yet scanned my credit card). No one in that store has ever asked to see ID since.

But then a brand new Walmart opened closer to our house, and lo and behold, the second fellow who called from the other store became the manager in the new store. So, sure enough, about the 3rd or 4th time I was in there, the cashier asked to see my drivers license. I told her, "Call your manager." So I got to meet him in person, and was never again asked for other ID.

I would think that asking for an ID while using a credit card is the right thing to do

How would they know who you are and that credit card is actually yours?

 

[DUMBDOG]

The only time that I get asked for my ID with my credit card is when they notice that the back is not signed, or occasionally when the purchase is over a hundred dollars.

 

[Skyco]

I've become used to being asked for ID everytime at a few places I shop, Northern Tool and Sportsmans Warehouse are two examples. I don't have a problem with it.
Now what does irritate the daylights out of me is when the clerk swipes your card, watches you put it back in your wallet, watches you put the wallet back in your pocket, then asks for ID

 

[ShaleniFarm]

I would think that asking for an ID while using a credit card is the right thing to do

How would they know who you are and that credit card is actually yours?

Actually, it is (or was - haven't checked in a year or so) a violation of the Visa (and probably Mastercard) policy with merchants to ask for ID with a credit card purchase. The only verification is supposed to be signature. If your card is not signed, the merchant is 'supposed' to refuse it. (As an aside, putting "check id" or other such nonsense is against the cardholder agreement with the issuer.)

The credit card issuers don't want to make it any more difficult to use their product.

I personally don't always carry my wallet. But I do have my credit card. I refuse to shop in Staples because of the local store's policy to ask for ID with my Visa. So, I comparison shop there and when asked, tell Staples that I buy at Officemax instead for this reason.

This is as far as I know. I no longer am a cc merchant, so things may have changed. But it is a peeve of mine.

Have a good one,
Neil.

 

[Bird]

I would think that asking for an ID while using a credit card is the right thing to do

How would they know who you are and that credit card is actually yours?

I generally agree, and don't mind when stores ask for other ID, but I wanted to know why only that one Walmart asked for ID, why only about every 3rd or 4th time I was in there, and each time I noticed someone ahead of me use a credit card without being asked. And I'm not talking about large purchses; I'm talking about $10 -$15 worth of grocery type purchases.

And while asking for ID doesn't bother me in the least, they can't ask for ID at the gas pumps, for online purchases, etc. And to compare a signature on the back of the card with one on a receipt or machine is a joke; even document examiner experts are only guessing. The signature I scribble on receipts looks nothing like one I'd do sitting at a desk at home. And on the machines Walmart now uses for you to scan your own card and sign on the machine, I assume most people have noticed that it "accepts" your signature no matter what kind of mark you make.

In fact, the whole signature business is silly in this day and age, with gas pumps, Internet sales, etc. And a few stores have finally realized that and stopped even asking for signatures. Walgreen's Drug Stores being one example. The primary purpose of signatures was not to compare with the one on the back of the card, but was to show that you actually did make the purchase in the event that you challenged the charge on your credit card.

 

[Skyco]

I've frequented many fast food places that no longer bother with a signature and even Home Depot in NC doesn't have you sign unless it is over $50 but the ones in SC have you sign every purchase- go figure.
I used to go buy stuff with a Visa Purchasing Card issued to my boss with his name on it. I can't tell you how many times I bought stuff for work with that card and the clerk compared my signature to his and never batted an eye
I've even had them request ID and never notice that his name on the card and mine on my drivers license were very different
They are just going through the motions apparently....brain in neutral.

The other one that gets me is when they want a phone number - like if you were up to something you would give them the correct number...

Years ago when pagers were common mine quit, went to the pager place to get another and they insisted on my SSN to replace my pager, I balked because the pager was leased by my employer not me. When the girl insisted I would NOT get the replacement pager without giving her my SSN I made one up and walked out with my new pager..

 

[Soundguy]

I've become used to being asked for ID everytime at a few places I shop, Northern Tool and Sportsmans Warehouse are two examples. I don't have a problem with it.
Now what does irritate the daylights out of me is when the clerk swipes your card, watches you put it back in your wallet, watches you put the wallet back in your pocket, then asks for ID

Yep.. that one burns me up too.. a few local stores operate that way..

soundguy

 

[Skyco]

The Lowes around here want the last four digits off your card after you've used it. Frequently I forget this and it is already back in my wallet. Problem is I sometimes don't even know which one I just used and the clerk gets quite annoyed when I give her the wrong four and it kicks out the purchase. I don't understand the last four thing, no other store anywhere has ever wanted that info...

 

[jdbower]

The Lowes around here want the last four digits off your card after you've used it.

Same here. There was a scam a while ago where people would steal cards and use them until they were canceled, then all they did was steal card numbers and reencode the old cards (or even use your own cards). This way the number on the magnetic strip is different than the number on the card and in theory they'll be caught when the cashier compares the numbers. Problem is they just ask for the numbers instead of looking at the card and since I've got mine memorized I don't need to show them and the security is bypassed. Seems like a lot of effort for a small percentage of fraud cases, but maybe one of the Lowes execs had this happen to him... Either way I got used to it so it's second nature now.

 

[Skyco]

Interesting about faking cards...a few years ago someone with a Florida ID got a $3000 cash advance off my Discover card based in SC from a bank in Kentucky. Discover insisted the lady had my card, I insisted she did not since I had it in my hand.
The other thing is Discover claimed they tried to call me to check before giving the lady the money. As it turns out I work for the cellular carrier and pulled call records to check.
They did call my cell phone, (which is the only number I have) and let it ring for less than 10 seconds before hanging up. I was out of town at the time and calls frequently don't even make it to other than your home system within 10 seconds.*

Dummies.
Cost them $3000.

*For technical reasons the home system is often searched first to see if you are in it before it pages you in other systems, hence the short time delay.

 

[Podunkadunk]

The Lowes around here want the last four digits off your card after you've used it. Frequently I forget this and it is already back in my wallet. Problem is I sometimes don't even know which one I just used and the clerk gets quite annoyed when I give her the wrong four and it kicks out the purchase. I don't understand the last four thing, no other store anywhere has ever wanted that info...

What aggravates me is here lately when I use my credit card for gas purchases at the pump, I'm asked to enter my zip code. The first time it happened, I entered 90210 or something just to be a smart alec. It rejected my card and I had to start the whole process again.

Hmmm, so I had thought it was just big brother trying to keep tabs on me (that's why I entered the bogus zip), but later figured it was to ensure my identity AND BIG BROTHER WATCHING

 

[Soundguy]

On the flip side.. discover security frequently calls me to verify purchases.. what's up with that?

example.

I got to starbucks 2x per week. I also eat out with the wife 1x per week.

about 2 weeks per month i will get home from work and there will be a message on my ans machine saying access to my discover card may be limited untill I call in. when i do.. they ask all the usual security stuff.. name ss# security word.. etc... then they ask me to verify a couple purchases. 9 times out of 10 it will be the 4$ coffee.. or a 25% meal...

Last 2 times it happened.. i had just used my card to fun a paypall purchase.. both of them were large.. like 400$ etc.

I got home and sure enough.. there was a call.. I was actually expecting it.. when i called in.. they wanted to know about that 4$ cup of coffee.. but didn't say a word about the 487$ paypall purchase made the same day...

they got a real weird idea of security if they need to call me 2x per month and ask about my 32$ worth of coffee vs other large 'red flag' purchases...

weird..

soundguy

 

[mjfox6]

The only time that I get asked for my ID with my credit card is when they notice that the back is not signed, or occasionally when the purchase is over a hundred dollars.

OCCASIONALLY over $100? Someone has to tell me how to do this! I'm amazed if I get out of Walmart with the price under $200!

 

[Skyco]

That was the other funny thing about the $3000 scam pulled with my card- supposedly the card companies track you pretty well...I had bought gas in Anderson SC just a couple of hours before the scam withdrawal in Kentucky...if they had really been on their toes they'd have realized I couldn't be in Kentucky in 2 hours unless I had my own airplane

I've also been called frequently on vacation when some credit card company notices "strange" patterns...I had to tell one a few years ago to stop calling me every day, I was driving to Utah on vacation and yes I bought gas in Tennessee and yes in Arkansas and yes in Missouri and so on...and would be doing that for two weeks so layoff unless it is something really unusual NOT gas purchases

 

[Bird]

Lowe's here asks for the last 4 digits of the card, so I guess Lowe's everywhere does. And I, too, have my credit card number memorized so I just tell them the last 4 numbers. They've never asked to see it, then.

When someone managed to charge a couple of $200 plus charges on my Discover card; one in New York and one in Tennessee, they removed the charges, sent me a new card with new number, etc. And then for a few months, they'd call fairly often to verify charges, which was fine with me. Once I paid a hospital bill of about $1,100 and within 15 minutes (before I left the hospital) they called me on the cell phone. Personally, I appreciated them checking, and told them so. They haven't done that in a long time, though they do send an e-mail for any charge over $300. The only trouble is that the e-mail doesn't come for 3 or 4 days after such charges. And they send an e-mail for any refund or credit, no matter how small.

 

[PhilNH5]

I know I'm just being a radical jerk, but I refuse to show or hand over my receipt at a Walmart exit. MikeD74T

I had a problem once in Best Buy. It was Christmas Eve day and my wife wanted a videocamera. I got there as soon as they opened but still spent an hour in the store making a selection and getting service. NH is cold at Christmas so I had a coat on initially but after a while I removed it and drapped it over my arm.

After paying for my purchase the clerk put it in a security bag. It was self sealing and clear with blue words on it. It was tough plastic and the idea is if you tore it open it would stretch and the blue words would become distorted. While the clerk is bagging I put my coat back on.

I start to leave and a lady asks to see my receipt. I show it to her. She takes my bag and looks close at the video camera and compares it to the receipt. Then while still holding my bag she asks me to take off my coat so she can check it. I ask why? She replies "You had your coat off while shopping" I am stunned - I mean I just spent a hugh amount of money on the camera and here I am practically being accused of theft.

I should have demanded my money back but with the late date I did not want to do that - I needed a present for my wife. Instead I said "If you are accusing me of theft you need to call a police officer now. You are not searching my coat" She handed me back my bag and the receipt and - yep you guessed it - told me to "have a nice day"

That was four years ago. I have not been back in a BestBuy since.

Phil

 

[Bird]

Phil, I'd have probably done the same thing you did; i.e., tell her to call the police if she thought I was stealing anything. However, having worked shoplifting prevention and enforcement, I can tell you that the coat draped over the arm is an old shoplifter's trick. So of course what we would have done would have been to watch you very closely in the store to see if you tried to hide something in the coat. But we would never have challenged you or asked to search or anything like that unless we actually saw you take and conceal merchandise.