Visited my Toolcat yesterday! (Pictures!)

odleefs · Oct 20, 2005

For clarification:
I forgot to mention, the 4 wheel steer, the way at least it was intended to function, splits the turn effort between the front and rear axels by having the front axle turn opposite the rear axel, thus dramatically decreasing the turn radius.
What I will try this weekend is same turn on front and rear axels to keep machine going along a diagonal fence but to keep the mass headed straight down the fall line.
Hope this helps!

Rolando · Oct 21, 2005

Rip,
I was reading about Qradrasteer in Truck Trend (I wanted to get it on my Yukon XL, but they only offered it on the 3/4 ton, which I didn't want), and they talked about the system having a crab mode. I seem to remember the procedure maybe being to apply light pressure on the brake pedal while giving it some gas? I'm not sure if that's the right way, but you can definitely do it, because they raved about it in the review. Check your owner's manual, or call GM. I doubt that I could find that copy of that issue of the magazine.

The system does this automatically at higher speeds for lane changing. Per the Delphi website:
"At higher speeds (above 40 miles or 64 kilometers per hour), the rear wheels are in the positive phase, turning in the same direction as the front wheels"

Thinking about this gets me irritated at GM, because I would have ordered QS on my Yukon XL 1/2 ton if I could have, and now I miss it every time I'm making adjustments to get into a right angle parking space.

Rolando · Oct 21, 2005

bmac,

I got the Turbo 5600 Cab with lug tires (R-4's) with the High Flow option. I also got the Keyless Start Security System option, AM/FM/CD (both dealer installed) and the Construction/Industrial 62 inch bucket. I will also be getting a hydraulic root grapple and 48 inch pallet forks.

I will be renting the box scraper for a month or so while I grade the fill around the house and probably the chipper (High Flow required), since I'm going to have a huge load on branches as I take down trees and clean up the remaining ones.

As for the last question, I was expecting the unit to be delivered this morning, but the dealer's truck has developed some brake problems, so it will need to happen next week.

BrianSouthernMD · Oct 21, 2005

( I got the Turbo 5600 Cab with lug tires (R-4's) with the High Flow option. I also got the Keyless Start Security System option, AM/FM/CD (both dealer installed) and the Construction/Industrial 62 inch bucket. I will also be getting a hydraulic root grapple and 48 inch pallet forks.
I will be renting the box scraper for a month or so while I grade the fill around the house and probably the chipper (High Flow required), since I'm going to have a huge load on branches as I take down trees and clean up the remaining ones.
As for the last question, I was expecting the unit to be delivered this morning, but the dealer's truck has developed some brake problems, so it will need to happen next week. )
Rolando,
That delay must be tough!

As far as additional options you look like you have from photos, I'd include Attachment Control Kit (included in Deluxe Road Package Option you didn't get but also avail. separately), Rear View Mirror, and enhanced Radiator Screen Kit (SHOULD be included with all Toolcats, but be sure!).

SOME Bobcat chipper models will work in 18GPM standard flow (but at less than their peak performance), but the most capable chipper offered is limited to high flow, 26 GPM in Toolcat.

BTW, I found the optional Rear Window Guard accessory did not reduce visibility too much, is additional protection from falling or moving objects, and enables you to load up the bed higher. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rip · Oct 21, 2005

Rolando, Many folks have been disapointed even angry at how badly GM bungled the availability and marketing of the QS system from the beginning. First it was grossly overpriced, then even after they rectified that issue only the "true believer" dealers stocked any so even those who would have seriously considered it could not even test drive one unless their buddy had one. Then to cinch the fiasco, most retail salespeople are very reluctant to special order a vehicle so only about 17,000 PUs, Suburbans or Denalis were equipped with QS over a 4 year period in all the North American market.

As a 3/4 met my needs, it made my decision to get a full crew cab/short box easier for the enhanced manuverability. You are quite right that the Quadrasteer does do sort of a crab mode at speeds over about 45, but unless I have really missed something there is no way (undocumented secret command like some software have??) to enter such a mode at slow speeds. There are occasional times when being able to crab away from a wall, tree, ditch or too-closely-parked car could come in handy even if just for 30 seconds or a few feet.

Having observed a CAT 426B doing a lot of close quarter work, the operator went in and out of 4WS, 2WS and crab mode numerous times in any given operation and the combination allowed him to work in conditions that otherwise would have precluded a machine of that size without such capability.

Side-slope mowing would certainly be a situation where continous crab-mode would be helpful. For others, just being able to go into that mode momentarily would get you away from conflict with a tree, wall, etc. Glad to hear that there does appear to be a way to do it with the ToolCat.

At the moment my various needs are sort of being served by a PowerTrac 1845, a Polaris Ranger, and 3/4 PU w/plow. Makes the ToolCat $$ seem downright reasonable compared to the purchase price and maintance costs for the three machines listed above. On the other hand there are some things each of the three can do that the TC can not or would not be as good at.

But then again, what in life is not a compromize of some sort?? The difficulty (and fun) comes in chosing and/or prioritizing.

I'm sure I'll be joining the ranks of this new breed of utility tool carrier at some point, but in the meantime I'm learning from everyone else. Thanks for all the good info!

Rolando · Oct 21, 2005

Rip,
Unless the Truck Trend review was just plain wrong, I know they said crab mode at low speed could be engaged, and I believe it was accomplished by 'two footed' operation, applying pressure to both the brake and acceleration pedals. Controlling your forward motion by easing up the pressure on the brakes. Like what you would do starting off after a red light on an incline, to avoid rolling back and hitting the guy behind you. Have you ever tried this? Maybe you would also need to be in tow mode that lowers the transition speed down from 45 mph to 25 mph.

Obviously, you would only want to do this on rare occasions, since it's not good for the brakes or the transmission either, I guess.

Maybe I'll have a quadrasteer some day. I read on the Quadrasteer Club site that Nissan or somebody had expressed interest. I think I saw you post there, unless there is more than one 'Rip' in Colorado. As long as Delphi doesn't agree to an exclusive deal again, maybe the costs could be lowered enough to increase interest and perhaps get GM back into it again. I'm a pretty much of a diehard GM buyer. I've already told my GMC dealer that I was disappointed to hear GM had cancelled Quadrasteer and that I would have ordered that option on my special order Yukon XL 1/2 ton if I could have. Maybe interest could be rekindled. Let me know if you try the two-pedal thing and if it works.

Rip · Oct 23, 2005

Other than the folks who have inadvertantly found them selves in some sort of weird situation (including a crab mode of some kind) with Quadrasteer, I have found no other reference to being able to manually and predictably enter such a mode, and that would be the only way it could be useful as opposed to makeing a bad situation worse.

I did play around with the truck trying a number of creative combinations, but nothing seemed to put it into crab mode. Still would not surprise me that there "is a way", but in the mean time I'll just have to keep my eyes and ears open or remember exactly what I just did if I happen to stumble on it.

I had hoped that when the '06 models came out that some other manufacturer would have announced that they had picked up the QS. I had understood that GM had an exclusive on it only through '05 and was partly due to the fact that serious developement had begun back in the early '90s when Delphi was wholey owned by GM. One would hope that Someone else would pick up on this, but it really makes the most sense for the biggest trucks which are somewhat out of favor now.

Mean while I will hang on to the one I have. One thing that is hard to get away from is the fairly high unsprung weight of the rear steering axle. It rides like an empty 1 ton dually. This is most noticable on wash-board type roads - like the 5 miles of Park County road I live on!! With a full load on it is somewhat better.

As you have figured out, I am one-and-the-same on the QS site as well. Hope you get your new machine real soon. Looks like Wilma is dropping down to just "regular" hurricane status, but still hang on to your hat!

Rolando · Nov 3, 2005

Steve,

I was thinking about the crab mode discussions today, and I wanted to tell you that my Bobcat service guy that went over the operation of the Toolcat on delivery presented the crab mode as a new feature introduced with the C series. Maybe Brian can comment on whether this is correct. The Bobcat guy had to do a little experimenting, since mine is the first C he's gotten.

As I'm sure you've already found out, it's a matter of not transitioning between 2 and 4 wheel steer with the wheels straight. I haven't tried to do the crab mode on purpose, but I found myself doing it unintentionally until I figured out how to change steering modes correctly.

BrianSouthernMD · Nov 3, 2005

( I was thinking about the crab mode discussions today, and I wanted to tell you that my Bobcat service guy that went over the operation of the Toolcat on delivery presented the crab mode as a new feature introduced with the C series. Maybe Brian can comment on whether this is correct. The Bobcat guy had to do a little experimenting, since mine is the first C he's gotten.

As I'm sure you've already found out, it's a matter of not transitioning between 2 and 4 wheel steer with the wheels straight. I haven't tried to do the crab mode on purpose, but I found myself doing it unintentionally until I figured out how to change steering modes correctly.)
I found crab mode to be an undocumented feature on my Summer 2005 B-series Toolcat 5600 Turbo, so it must have gotten in there prior to when the first C-series units were produced in Sept. 2005. But I haven't spent much time experimenting to see when this would be useful.

All the other steering (2-wheel & 4-wheel) and drive (work 4WD and non-work 4WD) mode and traveling speed range options plus differential lock and suspension system and axle oscillation are enough for what I've been doing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rolando · Nov 3, 2005

Yeah, the 4-wheel steer is so versatile I haven't gotten into any situation that I couldn't just steer my way out of in 4WS. Up till now I haven't had any time to experiment with the crab mode.