Vintage tools

[DFB]

Stumbled across this youtube channel today. To me it relates a lot to the "you know your old thread " as I grew up knowing a lot of these crazy wrench sizes

 

[Jstpssng]

Stumbled across this youtube channel today. To me it relates a lot to the "you know your old thread " as I grew up knowing a lot of these crazy wrench sizes

I have been going through my father's tools and came across several odd sized wrenches. Many of them are vintage Craftsman tools.
I've been wondering how closely they would match up to metric sizes.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Stumbled across this youtube channel today. To me it relates a lot to the "you know your old thread " as I grew up knowing a lot of these crazy wrench sizes

I got taught by my dad that the sockets which were 1/32 smaller than standard sized nuts and bolt heads, were used when the nut or bolt head got buggered up. You take a file, and dress it up a bit, and then drive the undersized socket on. It fits tight, and things quit rounding. Add force until the bolt comes loose, or something breaks.

 

[DFB]

I have been going through my father's tools and came across several odd sized wrenches. Many of them are vintage Craftsman tools.
I've been wondering how closely they would match up to metric sizes.

Best I know is there are not that many SAE Metric crossovers. The most common I can think of is 3/4" to 19mm and 7/8" to 22mm swaps

Also 14mm will often fit a 9/16" hex and 16mm will go over a 5/8"

21/32 should loosely fit a 16mm I would think.

I found it all interesting because have been aware of a lot of this strange bolt/nut/ thread pitch, head sizing and wrench marking being involved in mechanics and machining plus around OLD plumbing since the early 1970's (my formative teenage years

) And messing with older cars and trucks.
We even had square head bolts 4 point, 8 point before hex head before 6 corners/6 flats become common

Especially confusing was with British Whitworth and early European Metric motorcycles on the market back then and not even counting Japanese metric (JIS) standard when those motorcycles hit the scene.

Of course when I was in the industrial work force early 80's with Electro Mechanical assembly we had our American standards but West German machinery imports were quite prevalent even for the Farming equipment I dealt with later on in the 90's

 

[DFB]

I got taught by my dad that the sockets which were 1/32 smaller than standard sized nuts and bolt heads, were used when the nut or bolt head got buggered up. You take a file, and dress it up a bit, and then drive the undersized socket on. It fits tight, and things quit rounding. Add force until the bolt comes loose, or something breaks.

Good tip. certainly made due with what one had for sure.

Cripes nowadays they have all new things like Grip bolt extractors and even 1/2 size sockets

 

[BravoXray]

I got taught by my dad that the sockets which were 1/32 smaller than standard sized nuts and bolt heads, were used when the nut or bolt head got buggered up. You take a file, and dress it up a bit, and then drive the undersized socket on. It fits tight, and things quit rounding. Add force until the bolt comes loose, or something breaks.

That's what metric sockets are good for.

 

[Tinhack]

Prior to SAE, there were many odd sized nuts and bolts. A #14-20 comes to mind. And no, it's not 1/4-20. Many of the nuts were square. This would be the age of the Ford Model T and before. I've got many antique tools as well as Model T tools in my collection. One of these days, I might get my 1925 Touring put together. Some of those tools will be necessary.

 

[etpm]

1/2-13 is a standard thread but there was a time when 1/2-14 was also used. During the second world war some stuff was apparently made in China for the war effort. This was of course when the USA was helping China fight against the Japanese. So stuff was made in China to USA specs because they were repairing American stuff in China. Some stuff continued to be made to obsolete specs after the war because the factories were set up for it. I bought a grinder that was made in China in the early 80s. It was obviously a copy of an old US design. I didn't realize how old until I lost one of the nuts that held the grinding wheel on. I just went to the hardware store to buy another 1/2-13 nut and it wouldn't fit. Then I figured out it was 1/2-14. So I made a custom nut on the lathe and did some research and that's how I found out about stuff made in China during the second world war.
Eric

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^^
Interesting post.
It would fit equally well in the "tell us something we don't know" thread.

 

[DFB]

IMO Metric sizing can still mess up a lot of people. And there are a couple of close thread pitches that can mingle together. Things seem to fit to start but bind up. Metric is prevalent now. Unless you have older US built machinery seems more and more people want metric only tool sets now.

I see that there's plenty of other interesting videos about tool manufacturer history on that You Tube channel too, like good old Vise Grip and Channellock, plus Armstrong, Herbrand.

I like tools. I may have too many

Even though the majority of all my sockets and wrenches are the older USA Craftsman, I have a couple of adjustable wrenches that have been passed along to me I really cherish, a 12" Utica Tools Selecto Lock and a 10" Williams "Superjustable". And some interesting Herbrand open end offset wrenches I found at the flea market. My motorcycle shop buddy has a nice set of Bonney wrenches.

(A bit off topic here maybe, but with the mention of Chinese produced nut and bolts I remember a while back was all in the news that there had been a slew of counterfeit grade marked fasteners on the market, Haven't heard much more about any of that recently.)

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Prior to SAE, there were many odd sized nuts and bolts. A #14-20 comes to mind. And no, it's not 1/4-20. Many of the nuts were square. This would be the age of the Ford Model T and before. I've got many antique tools as well as Model T tools in my collection. One of these days, I might get my 1925 Touring put together. Some of those tools will be necessary.

My granddad kept various widths and thicknesses of steel strap in the shop and used it to make square nuts for his farm equipment as needed. Lots easier to tap and square something up with a file, than to try to make a hex in a farm shop. He had a forge, (great grandpa was a blacksmith), and could heat treat his nuts if needed. Always fascinated me as a child.

 

[Tinhack]

I remember a while back was all in the news that there had been a slew of counterfeit grade marked fasteners on the market, Haven't heard much more about any of that recently.)

I think that was back in the 90s. I had a brand new 1993 Jeep Grand Cheroke that broke a control arm bolt coming off the freeway. I thought I was going to die but hobbled it back to the dealer. There was a recall on the very same bolts that I hadn't received yet. I think they were Chinese. Another recall I beat was the ignition coil. Got hit by that twice. Once on the road between Memphis and Jackson, Tennessee in the middle of the night. Got towed to a dealer and stayed in a Motel. The second time at Salt Fork State Park, Ohio with my boat. The boat never hit the water that weekend. I stayed in the boat until Tuesday when my Jeep was delivered by a nearby dealer. Fun camping though.

 

[BravoXray]

I like tools. I may have too many

Impossible, can't happen.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I am admittedly a tool junky. And, yes it runs in families. I have some chisels and a Starret square, with FCT stamped in them. Frank Carr Thomas died in the Spanish American war.

 

[ultrarunner]

Prior to SAE, there were many odd sized nuts and bolts. A #14-20 comes to mind. And no, it's not 1/4-20. Many of the nuts were square. This would be the age of the Ford Model T and before. I've got many antique tools as well as Model T tools in my collection. One of these days, I might get my 1925 Touring put together. Some of those tools will be necessary.

Yep… if memory serves I have a 21/32 socket for Model A connecting rod nuts.

 

[DFB]

Interesting that I have all of these wrenches and was this many years old today when I learned any of this...

 

[Jstpssng]

Impossible, can't happen.

Isn't that like owning too many guns?

 

[RobertN]

The Plomb vs Plumb story, and resulting name changes to Proto (PROfessional TOol) are interesting.

Alloy Artifacts is a good old tool resource.

Alloy Artifacts Tool History Page

The Alloy Artifacts tool history page for hand tools of the 20th century.

alloy-artifacts.org

 

[BravoXray]

There are never too many tools, only too few toolboxes to hold them.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Isn't that like owning too many guns?

Can't own too many of them either. Even when you have run out of space for anew gun safe. Might have to build an armory this summer, instead of a tractor shed.