Various wood structures

[RayCo]

I'm not aware of any forums elsewhere on the WWW that are more geared toward this, so please feel free to direct me somewhere more appropriate if this is too off-topic.

I've lately found the need to construct a few things around the house. My four year old daughter now has a little tractor and a Gator, so it is time that she have her own equipment shed. So, I'm building her one. I've also found that the gazebo I have is damaged beyond repair, and I need to build a new one. Also on the list is a snack stand for the wildlife in my area. So, these requirements have led me to have these two questions:

Is there an alternative to using pressure-treated wood in some situations. For instance, for the wildlife snack stand, the whole structure will be exposed to the elements, so my natural inclination is to use all pressure treated wood. But, if there is an option of using normal lumber and chemically treating it myself, at least for the wood that will not be in direct contact with the ground, I am not aware of it. I also have at least somewhat of a concern about exposing the animals to arsenic.


Can anyone recommend 3D modeling software that is reasonable for a hobbyist who'd just like to virtually assemble some 2x4s and plywood before turning on the saw? I've found that Pro/Engineer is a bit overkill in its price and learning curve. Google Sketchup drives me insane. I'm currently playing around with a product called DesignWorkshop Lite. It seems okay, but I'm looking for something that'd be more geared toward building wooden structures and has tools specific to working with lumber, not just any abstract 3D shape.


Thanks for anything.

 

[brin]

There is decking called Trex...which is artificial wood..a composite of somekind and then there is Hardi Plank which is concrete and used to side houses with..

 

[RayCo]

Hmm, I hadn't even thought about Trex. That's a good thing to look into for cost comparison. Thanks!

 

[/pine]

If you can find cyprus it is impervious to the elements and can be left unfinished...it will eventually get a nice gray (aged patina) color...

As stated it is impervious to the elements but it is vulnerable to insects and rotting where it contacts the ground...

Woods like locust are harder to work with but are also WX proof...

Redwood is also good as is some grades of cedar...but much more expensive...

Another alternative I have used on softer more vulnerable woods is to melt paraffin and apply with a disposable brush...it does not last forever and it sometimes turns black (mold I guess) but it does protect the wood from the elements...

 

[EddieWalker]

Is there an alternative to using pressure-treated wood in some situations.

I also have at least somewhat of a concern about exposing the animals to arsenic.

PT wood no longer contains arsenic. That was taken out a few years ago and now they usea copper type solution (I think) that does almost as good a job, but tend to lead to more warpage and movement of the wood.

The amount of arsenic in the lumber was so minimal that it was only considered a hazard at burn and disposal sites. You have to burn a massive amount of it to leave a measurable amount in the soil.

There is nothing that you can buy that will be cheaper then just buying PT wood. Not even figuring in your time trying to do it, nothing out there that you can apply yourself will last anywhere close to as long as just buying PT lumber.

How much lumber are you buying? I can't imagine it's more then a doze or so bards. PT wood is a couple bucks more then regular wood. Again, it's cost effective to just buy what you need, what will work, and get it done.

Trex and other non wood decking substitutes do not have any structural integrity. One of the biggest drawbacks to using those products on decks is that they are so week and break down over time due to flexing. You have to really close in your joists when useing them for decking, and even then, it's a matter of time and usage before you see them saging or cracking.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[voodoo]

Ray,

Regarding the design software, I would say persevere with Google Sketchup.
I've been trained and worked with several packages over the years, Autocad, Archicad etc being the main ones, and many other "try and see packages" which have quickly fallen by the wayside.

I was an early adopter of Sketchup before it was bought up by Google and have found it the most intuitive natural package yet produced. With the advent of its sister product, "Layout" (I think this is only available to purchased copies), I can now create production drawings and need no other product for my workflow, albeit I don't do as much design work now as I did a few years ago.

I like to toy about with it for some of my hobby engineering projects, see enclosed. Its perfect for testing What if scenarios before breaking out the angle grinder and welder.

Timber projects would be very easy with standard lumber. Try making typical standard size pieces, ie. 6' lengths of 2x4 and then save these as components. Insert, rotate, pin, scale and push pull these to your hearts content to make the items you need.

It works, and works well, but you do have to get into a 3D mindset and away from traditional 2D draughting.

Hope this helps.

Nigel

 

[studor]

I would second the pressure treated recommendation -- if you are really concerned, make the part that comes in to contact with the feed out of untreated wood or plastic etc. I have one feeder that has no pressure treated wood and the box part of it needs to be replaced after about five years.
Lots of times I just use MS Paint to sketch up plans

 

[dave1949]

For the snackbar, you could design it around a vinyl/plastic/recycled rubber feed trough or bucket from a farm supply store. There are lots of different shapes and sizes. You might need to drill some drain holes in the bottom. That would eliminate the feed to wood contact at least and I think would last a very long time. Easy to clean occassionally too to prevent disease transmission.
Dave.

 

[RayCo]

Awesome. Thanks y'all for some useful advice.

 

[RayCo]

I was an early adopter of Sketchup before it was bought up by Google and have found it the most intuitive natural package yet produced. With the advent of its sister product, "Layout" (I think this is only available to purchased copies), I can now create production drawings and need no other product for my workflow, albeit I don't do as much design work now as I did a few years ago.

Nigel, did you do those drawings in Sketchup and/or Layout? If so, uh, yeah, I think I will have to give Sketchup another chance and checkout Layout.

 

[voodoo]

All the drawings shown were directly from Sketchup.

Layout as the name suggests is a formatting package to produce drawing collections.
I've attached one from work to give you an idea of layout arrangement. It's only a single page, but you can produce a booklet of drawings if you so wish. I've some better ones, but privacy concerns would prevent me posting.

The really nice thing about Layout is that you can insert a Sketchup model into the "page" and rotate the live model to the angle you want at any time. It doesn't become a fixed 2D projection. You can also add scaled dimensions to the 3D projection.

Give Sketchup a whirl. The best think about it is that it's free and has 90% of the functionality of the paid version.

 

[RayCo]

This is outstanding. I will now forge ahead through the learning curve of Sketchup. Thank you!

 

[Iplayfarmer]

This is outstanding. I will now forge ahead through the learning curve of Sketchup. Thank you!

I'd have to second the recommendation to put the time into learning sketchup. I tried a half dozen design programs before I found sketchup. It's intuitive, it's powerful, and it's free. The free part is great because it means many people are going to use it. Then there's a huge population base with some knowledge of how it works. Just here on TBN there have been a handful of threads with advice on how to use sketchup. Do a search and you'll find some very useful hints.

Here are some examples below of drawings I've done for lumber related projects...

 

[RayCo]

This is freaking fantastic.

 

[inveresk]

There are a few exceptions but with good detailing you shouldn't need pressure treated unless you're area is prone to insect attack. CCA (copper chrome arsenic) was outlawed a couple years ago. They discovered it leached and trace residues can be picked up through physical contact. There is an exception for some industrial and commercial situations where the timber will be completely hidden but it's no longer acceptable in residential situations. CCA has been superseded by ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quaternary) which is really hard on metals. I've tried using various fixings and nothing lasts except stainless (which really pushes up the cost). Galvanized metals corrode really quickly and even ceramic coated will corrode over time. We're fencing at the moment into heavy clay soil so we've no option but to use ACQ posts then spike the rails into them by gunning with stainless ring shanks. Not cheap.

For most other situations, I use cedar posts kept a minimum of 6" clear of the ground. Above this, e.g. for deck joists and the like, untreated fir works if the top face is protected with a strip of sand finished peal and stick prior to fixing the decking to it. For any exposed, finished timbers, cedar is the best answer here. I tend to apply a finish - usually a natural oil of some sort - but only to prevent the wood from turning grey.

 

[smfcpacfp]

Why not consider cedar as an alternative to pressure treated lumber as the above poster suggested? It looks better from the get go, is readily available but it is more expensive.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Why not consider cedar as an alternative to pressure treated lumber as the above poster suggested? It looks better from the get go, is readily available but it is more expensive.

Cedar fence slats are relatively cheap. They are thin, though; and may only work as a "veneer" of sorts.