vaccine - curious question

[Soundguy]

I have a bit of a curious question about a tetanus shot. Info seems hard to track down via internet.. or medical profesional.

I take it the TS is actually something to help your body deal with the tetanus toxin.. such as helping it build an antigen? As opposed to helping your body fight off the actual tetanus bacteria thru an antibody?

Also.. what is the 'effective' time frame from when a person recieves the vacination, till a usefull level of imune response will / can occour. I.e, how long does it take from introduction of the vaccine, till it will do you any good.

likewise, what is the time frame ( incubation period? ) from initial infection with tetanus, till onset of symptoms.

Sitting here with my sore arm.. I started thinking about these minutia.. and could find no answers.. either online or otherwise.

Any MD's or other health profesionals care to comment?

thanks

Soundguy

 

[MrJimi]

SoundGuy, try this link

THE MERCK MANUAL MEDICAL LIBRARY: The Merck Manual of Medical Information--Home Edition

Jim

 

[IslandTractor]

Tetanus vaccine is actually aimed at neutralizing the toxin, not preventing the infection. It does so by producing an antitoxin antibody. The "toxoid" in the vaccine is the antigen which your body produces the antibody to. A toxoid is a real toxin that has been either chemically or heat treated to remove the toxic properties while retaining the antigenic potential that will stimulate your immune system. There is also an antibody product (human tetanus immune globulin) which can be administered to patients with tetanus but that is not necessary unless symptoms are present.

Tetanus infection has a variable incubation period of a few days to several months but most cases occur a couple of weeks after injury. As the human immune response to the toxoid vaccine is less than that, the booster vaccine just insures that you'll have good levels of antibody just in case a few C. tetani organisms contaminated your wound. Overwhelming infection is not the issue with tetanus, rather it is the neurologic disease due to the released toxin that does the damage.

Now for the real question: what did you do to yourself that required a tetanus booster?

 

[gsganzer]

Sitting here with my sore arm.. stiffness of the jaw, restlessness, difficulty in swallowing, irritability, headache, fever, sore throat, chills, and muscle spasms and stiffness in the neck, arms, and legs. I started thinking about these minutia.. and could find no answers.. either online or otherwise.

Any MD's or other health profesionals care to comment?

thanks

Soundguy

I couldn't resist adding the symptoms into your post. I just had visions of you sitting around watching the symptoms develop one by one, and contemplating when you should go to the Dr. My wife says I'm one of the worst at refusing to go to the Dr. when I get hurt or have a cold.

That's why I get a tetanus shot at least every 10 years during one of my physicals. Immunity is certainly not something I want to be second guessing after getting a mild or moderate cut or scrape.

 

[roxynoodle]

I have been told 10 years, too, but my doctor seems to want to boost it every 5. I'm going to guess I'm not much different than other rural homeowners and do get cut by metal or step on nails more often than I would like. If you have cut yourself or punctured yourself with anything rusty and you think it has been 5 years or more since you had one, go get one. Even if your health insurance doesn't cover it, it is like $25. Definitely worth it!

 

[IslandTractor]

I have been told 10 years, too, but my doctor seems to want to boost it every 5.

10 years is routine for anyone. You will likely be given a booster if you have gone more than 5 years and present with a cut or penetrating injury that is deemed more than low risk for tetanus contamination. Most any cut acquired on a farm or outdoors would be considered risky.

 

[Soundguy]

Now for the real question: what did you do to yourself that required a tetanus booster?

Thanks for the info.

As to what/when/why, there is a post in this forum about my 'accident'. The short of it is that a rooster spur'ed me and embedded about an inch of spur inmy back.. it broke off.. had to go to the doc.. get antibiotics / tetanus shot.. etc. Wound -appears- to be healing nicely. Arm is a tad sore still.

Soundguy

 

[dmccarty]

Wound -appears- to be healing nicely. Arm is a tad sore still.

Oh Boy. Sorry to hear that the arm is sore but I'm sure its nothing to worry about. In fact, I'm positive everything is ok.

But there is a medical condition, called Pullus Tripudio syndrome, that you might want to know about. One of the first symptoms is limb pain near the site of injury. Arms start to pull in a the elbows so that the hands move into the armpits. Then a tremor develops so that the arms have an almost uncontrollable urge to move up and down. At the same time the the legs start to bend at the knees so that the afflicted have to walk with a shuffle like hopping motion that is also hard to control. In some cases people think that there body hair changes in a condition known as Pluma syndrome. Often times the condition can be further be classified as Rhode Insula Rutilus.

As the illness progresses the ability to speak degrades such that the afflicted can only utter single syllable sounds that sounds like cluck.

Often the Pullus Tripudio syndrome is execerbated by excessive drinking

As the illness progresses specific music is heard over and over in the afflicted's head. Here is an example.

http://www.oldworld.ws/chickendance.mid

The good news is that Pullus Tripudio syndrome is not fatal and after a day maybe two the affliction goes away. However some people seem to have a recurance every year in October. So be careful. Be very careful.

Later,
Dan
PS. For those of us lacking in Latin I'll translate some of the syndrome into English
Pullus Tripudio - Chicken Dance.
Pluma - Feathers.
Rhode Insula Rutilus - Rhode Island Red.

 

[Soundguy]

Yeah.. I told my wife that if this was a sci-fi movie.. that I'd now start growing feathers and turn into a big rooster..... etc..

Soundguy

 

[BB_TX]

My wife was recently stung on the back of her arm after digging around in a closet. We suspect it was a scorpion, although she never saw it. Swelled up and turned red and started having a rash all over. Real allergic reaction to it. Went to the doctor. He looked at it and said it was definitely a sting, not a bite by a spider or something. He gave her antibiotics, steriods, and a tetanus shot. Said since something had penetrated the skin, she needed the tetanus shot. Never heard of that for a sting.

 

[Soundguy]

Covering all bases? More insurance money??? who knows..

Soundguy

 

[IslandTractor]

He looked at it and said it was definitely a sting, not a bite by a spider or something. He gave her antibiotics, steriods, and a tetanus shot.

Congratulations. You have just received no brainer "shotgun" therapy. No role for either tetanus or antibiotics for a clear insect sting.

 

[N80]

Congratulations. You have just received no brainer "shotgun" therapy. No role for either tetanus or antibiotics for a clear insect sting.

Come on now doc, let's not criticize the guy who was there. Nothing worse than the Ivory Tower guys telling us folks in the trenches how things should be done.

Seriously, we don't know when the last tetanus was. We don't know what stung her or if it was even a sting. Saying it was an insect sting was just the doctors best guess. The skin _was_ penetrated (tetanus booster is even recommened with 2nd degree burns after all.) We don't know how available reliable follow-up would be either. Such a 'shotgun' response is clearly not the 'academic' approach, but it doesn't mean it was the the wrong approach either. In the real world a shotgun approach can be the best and safest approach especially in an urgent care or ER setting. And we all can't be Dr. House, you know.

 

[skent]

my BIL got hit by a rooster, didn't see the doctor. . . . said it was nothin'.

here's a recent photo of him with his dad. . . . . .

 

[IslandTractor]

.. let's not criticize the guy who was there. Nothing worse than the Ivory Tower guys telling us folks in the trenches how things should be done.

Sorry, but we'll have to disagree. Polypharmacy just ain't good medicine. Doesn't matter if you are practicing solo or at a medical center. Why do we have CA MRSA or resistant pneumococcus as issues today?....largely because antibiotics have been abused for the past 30 years or more. My point is simply that if the doc was really even just strongly suspcious much less sure it was a sting (and it sure sounded like a sting and allergic rxn) then antibiotics and tetanus were simply not indicated....watchful waiting would have been more appropriate. The tetanus booster is no big deal but the situation was hardly high risk for tetanus. Part of the problem is that that doc has now started "training" this patient that everytime there is a sting there should be antibiotics and booster shots. Same thing as prescribing antibiotics for a common cold, it estblishes an expectation in the patient that then becomes a time consuming challenge for the next doc who tries to do it right. Wrong message and crappy medicine.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Oh, GREAT!!!

Now I'm gonna be longer getting that durn tune out of my head than Soundguy was getting the spur outta his back!

Thanks, a lot!!!!

 

[rback33]

Oh, GREAT!!!

Now I'm gonna be longer getting that durn tune out of my head than Soundguy was getting the spur outta his back!

Thanks, a lot!!!!

Since we are near the subject.. I earned my bonhead of the year award yesterday...

lighting my wood stove I was snapping old lath from my house remodel over my knees for kindling... being ver y careful the nails were pointing UP before the THWACK over the knee... see where this is going?

noticed one didn't (seem to) have the usual middle nail as the "THWACK" of snapping wood was replaced bt things I can't type here. I will first go on record as stating I finished the kindling and fire lighting BEFORE hobbling into the kitchen to extricate myself from my boots and jeans. As only a three y/o can do my daughter points out "yer bleeding daddy" (see poke bloody spot, muttering ujnder breath) Here comes "Dr. Mommy" to the rescue with wipe and ointment (wipe 15 time with swab and stick end of ointment tube to the bottom of the hole) Was she trying to kill me? Anyway. I got me a nice puncture just above the right knee... Hurts like he!!... less than 2 yrs from last tetanus shot...and wife sure thought it was funny ...the vastus lateralis and rectis femoris are dang sore though

So... IT... no reason to go to the doc is there? My wife is hoping for an abscess so she can play squeeze it and make it ooze...

 

[patrick_g]

Rust is not a requirement for tetanus. I don't know why folks think rusty nail = tetanus. The organism lives in the environment. If your skin is broken and any environmental material (**** near anything) gets to the wound (even a sting... anything that breaks the skin) you are succeptible to getting tetanus It is a crapshoot. You may or may not be exposed and if exposed you may or may not sucumb. Better safe than sorry. Who can't afford to get a shot at least every 5 years when it could prevent a lot of pain and suffering and possible premature death.=============== Pat

 

[N80]

Sorry, but we'll have to disagree......Wrong message and crappy medicine.

Again, you're making that assessment (and accusation) on very limited info. Again, the poster did not say if she was due for a Td or not, so you don't know if it was given because a bug punctured her skin (wrong reason) or because she was there and needed it as a preventive (good reason). Again, you nor I saw the wound (I've seen countless secondary infections from excoriated mosquito and chigger bites) or the rash or the patient. Again, the cause of the wound was unknown. Again, in a setting in which follow-up is not possible or is unlikely, all the rules change.

We're not really in disagreement in regard to proper use of Td, antibiotics (and I'm sure you've never prescribed a Zpack for marginal diagnosis of sinusitis right? ) or for that matter, corticosteriods and I'm not defending _any_ physicians motives or practice. I'll bust another docs chops any day of the week (and have) if he is practicing bad medicine. But I would never criticize another doctor's work (or anyone else's) when I don't have the necessary facts to justify it. (That's what we have malpractice attorneys for, well, that and keeping the bottom of the pond clean.) And in the case at hand, the facts aren't there. Period.

 

[Bird]

I earned my bonhead of the year award yesterday...

Some good came from it though in that it gave me a good laugh.