USURY

[sweettractors]

I have had a Visa card issued by Chase for at least 8 years now, it is my primary card. During all those years I have only had to pay a late fee one time, and that was because my mailbox was destroyed by a snowplow and the bill blew away in the wind, but the charge was reasonable, and that was the only time I have ever paid a late fee and interest. Think it was about $27 total. I always pay off my account in full every month, but now, because of the changes in the laws, if I am one day late I get socked with a $35 late fee and my APR goes from 14% to nearly 30%.

What galls me even more is that if I am given a credit by a merchant that is applied to my balance during the period before my payment is due, I do not get credit for that as a "payment", Suppose I have a balance of $100 on my card, and a merchant gives me a credit of $99 to my balance before the $100 is due. Unless I pay them at least a dollar, I end up owing the $35 late fee and interest. Why are credits to my account not considered a payment of sorts?

I had a Mastercard I carried as a backup card, rarely used it. The card issuer told me last year they would charge me a fee of $60 a year to keep the card, and if I charged $1500 a year on it they would credit my account for the $60 fee. Bull roar. So I cancelled.

What makes me most angry about the credit card companies is that even if you have a spotless payment record going back ten years, they will c--- on you for the slightest reason. Know what I find really weird? I carry one card, which is always paid in full every month and I carry a very high credit limit that I don't get close to in a years time if I totaled up every charge I made. My wife has multiple credit cards and carries a balance on them all and pays interest on all of them...she sharges more in a month than I do in six months.

And guess who has a better credit score..she does. If that isn't a farce I don't know what is...

Cardholders that always pay off the card balance every month are the ones that the card companies do not make any money on. Ken Sweet

 

[chrisott]

Ken,

That's not entirely true. The credit card companies do not make interest on our balances, but as you know they make 3% on our charges. I remind them of that when I call to have charges removed. Actually, we are referred to as "deadbeats" in the credit card industry because we don't carry a balance.

I hope you have a good 2011, Ken.

Chris

 

[ultrarunner]

Most credit card agreements with merchants don't permit them to offer discounts for cash. If you get a better deal for cash, the merchant is breaking his agreement with the bank.

Yes, their fees are too high, so my business doesn't accept payment by credit card. It's a necessity for some.

This is my understanding too... I've reported a merchant that was charging higher for credit cards and was told by the Card Company I should not shop there if this is a problem...

She went on to say the agreement is confidential between the merchant and issuer...

When I worked in a small retail auto parts business the merchant agreement explicitly stated we could not charge more for customers paying by credit card.

 

[blueriver]

I read somewhere that credit cards offering 'points' towards rewards essentially charge the cost of that back to the merchant. True?
Dave.

The merchant gets the but end of it ... either points or fees ... the only thing merchants can do is adjust the sales price to cover the expense. I often wonder how much the actual retail price would be if everyone eliminated all the hidden cost.

 

[blueriver]

Ken,

That's not entirely true. The credit card companies do not make interest on our balances, but as you know they make 3% on our charges. I remind them of that when I call to have charges removed. Actually, we are referred to as "deadbeats" in the credit card industry because we don't carry a balance.

I hope you have a good 2011, Ken.

Chris

Chris ... yes, no balance no interest ... they don't like us!! Above and beyond the 3% add the merchant charges ... 15 cents to swipe a card, more to manually enter it, monthly fee's, annual membership fees, and this year a new $89.99 government fees .... and they also have certain transactions that are considered high risk ... AND do not call in and ask for authorization ... that will really nail a merchant!!

 

[blueriver]

This is my understanding too... I've reported a merchant that was charging higher for credit cards and was told by the Card Company I should not shop there if this is a problem...

She went on to say the agreement is confidential between the merchant and issuer...

When I worked in a small retail auto parts business the merchant agreement explicitly stated we could not charge more for customers paying by credit card.

This has changed ... I can charge what I feel is a reasonable account fee. My processor says it is a premuium established by the retailer ... I guess thats where the term "Buyers Premium" comes into play.

 

[dave1949]

The merchant gets the but end of it ... either points or fees ... the only thing merchants can do is adjust the sales price to cover the expense. I often wonder how much the actual retail price would be if everyone eliminated all the hidden cost.

Thanks, and to JimmyJ thank you too. I have two visa debit/credit cards except I opted out of overdraft coverage, so they are really only debit cards. When a merchant asks me debit or credit, I tell them to do which ever is less expensive for them. Either way, it's an immediate debit on my account.

I think consumers could use more education on the topic from the merchant's point of view. Since the thing about points/rewards/miles is true, the card companies are giving us back our own money - and only some of it at that

Maybe if more people realized it's just an expensive scam, they would apply some consumer pressure. I used to travel for work and I know you better be packing about three credit cards with healthy limits if you want to function. But for local business; groceries, gas, etc. maybe we should convert to cash.
Dave.

 

[sweettractors]

Ken,

That's not entirely true. The credit card companies do not make interest on our balances, but as you know they make 3% on our charges. I remind them of that when I call to have charges removed. Actually, we are referred to as "deadbeats" in the credit card industry because we don't carry a balance.

I hope you have a good 2011, Ken.

Chris

I love it when my card company calls me a deadbeat. You have a good 2011 as well. Ken Sweet

 

[not2old]

When I got hit with late charges once, I called to inquire and said I usually paid my account promptly but had been on a holiday, and since the payment was only one day late, could they please check the charges for accuracy. When told they were correct and nothing could be done, I asked to have my acount closed right then and there because I didn't want this to happen again. It didn't take more than two seconds before a supervisor offered to credit the charges if I would reconsider the cancellation. My card (mostly business) sees about $100,000 per year and they make PLENTY OF PROFIT on that even with no interest charges. It helps that I usually pay the balance right away rather than wait for the due date.

I don't know whether I hate banks or goverment the most.

 

[ultrarunner]

One of my biggest pet peeves was payment due date creep...

I have a mortgage and it's due the same day each month for the next 30 years...

Another is getting a new card in the mail, calling in and being told I'm good to go... drive to Sears to buy a set of tires and refrigerator and have the card I called 12 hours before be declined and informed it was closed 11 weeks ago... a card I've had for 30 years.

Don't get me started on HELOC's... had one 5 years and got a noticed saying it was being cancelled AT MY REQUEST??? I called in to explain I didn't request anything and was told sorry for the mistake... line of credit is cancelled anyway. A week later I get a call from BofA asking me to rate their service... tell them the business has been with them since 1948... says so on my checks and they cancelled my line. A week later, I'm told I can reapply... my loan to value was 40%... go figure?

Probably can tell I'm not a fan of Banks... ever since are little 12 branch Savings and Loan was taken over... Banking has never been the same. Savings and Loan gave my Brother a credit card at age 16 with no co-signer with a $200 credit limit... the Branch Manager said he was going out on a limb because the Bank could not collect if he choose not to pay being a minor... we were all loyal to the company and my brother went on to send millions of dollars in Real Estate Loans their way because customers were treated as individuals...

pardon my rant.... my scores have never been higher... guess they don't need or want my business.

 

[Redneck in training]

Cardholders that always pay off the card balance every month are the ones that the card companies do not make any money on. Ken Sweet

I charge in average about 10K (mostly business expenses) a month on credit card and pay it full every month. I was short 100 bucks one time and payed that one day late. They charged my credit card 300$ in interest. When I called and asked to wave it they called me a deadbeat because I don't carry balance. After that they stranded me in foreign country several times with blocked card and didn't want it unblock even after I called and spent probably couple hundred buck in mobile phone charges.
I figured if they charge the merchant 3.5% they make 350$ every month on my charges.

 

[ultrarunner]

I charge in average about 10K (mostly business expenses) a month on credit card and pay it full every month. I was short 100 bucks one time and payed that one day late. They charged my credit card 300$ in interest. When I called and asked to wave it they called me a deadbeat because I don't carry balance. After that they stranded me in foreign country several times with blocked card and didn't want it unblock even after I called and spent probably couple hundred buck in mobile phone charges.
I figured if they charge the merchant 3.5% they make 350$ every month on my charges.

Forgot about that one... Mom was overseas one year and they blocked her card... lucky for her she was with friends and they helped her out. The Credit Card Company with a calling card told her she needs to let them know in advance... they had her airline ticket charge... but live and learn.

The next year, she called two weeks before she left and and the same thing happened... she was left without the use of her card for the rooms she had put a deposit on... she had a back-up card and used it.

When she returned, she was a little bit more than upset... she had done everything asked and told the company to close her account... they put on two managers and offered her a credit and and some kind of voucher... she flatly told them NO... there was no way she would ever be in that situation again.

She was never late... payed high fees for cash advances and used her card a lot... probably why they wanted to keep her...

I put her on my card so if there is ever a problem... either of us can deal with it.

 

[chopped]

Can I add telephone bill pirates to this mix without hijacking the thread too far? This month my wife noticed a $14.95 addition to our landline telephone bill for "voice mail services." We don't use voice mail, so she called our provider, CenturyLink. They said they could block additional charges, but this was a 3rd-party company and my wife would have to cancel the service with them. When she contacted the company, they tried to say my wife should cancel through CenturyLink, but she didn't let them get away with that. They finally agreed to cancel the "service" and credit on our account to reimburse the charges. My wife called CenturyLink back and they said she would have to pay the bill and be credited with the amount on a later bill. Also, even though this bill is just due, they said that the next bill might contain the charges also. So essentially, this practice "robs" us of $15 to $30 for two months because some pirate company decided to levy a fee on our bill, probably hoping we would not notice. What a crock! I'm betting we will not only see additional charges, but we'll probably be back on the phone with these folks and maybe threaten them with notifying the PUC in our state. I hope not, but I'm sure there are lots of folks out there with the same thing happening, so check your phone bills folks.:thumbsup:

I went through this similiar thing years ago.The govt allows third party billing.At first the phone company told me they werent allowed to disclose the third party companies address:confused2: I told them they could tell me now or in court. Finally they gave me it. I made several calls to them with no results,I called the phone company and told them to block and further charges from thsi company and they "couldnt."I told them the company was a fraud and that they would also be a part of the fraud investigation. then they did as I requested.
Another poster her is right alot of people dont look at their bills and thats what these scam companies depend on..:confused2:

 

[chopped]

Hadnt considered this .. your right. I am amazed that they allow low charges. Like buying a candybar at wal mart.seems the expense of transaction wuld be more than the candybar lol

 

[JDgreen227]

Cardholders that always pay off the card balance every month are the ones that the card companies do not make any money on. Ken Sweet

I know they don't make any money on cardholders like me, but the point is, my credit score should be better than those who carry a balance and pay interest. They figure it backwards, IMO.

 

[kenstrac]

For many years I had a Visa card always paid complete balance every month processing center was in IL.never had a problem.
Then they changed their processing center to Atlanta GA.that's when the problems started,I would send out payment 10 days before due date.
Several mos. later I got a late payment charge and interest charge I called them up and told them that the payment was made 10 days before it was due they removed the charge and told me to send it out sooner OK so I mail it out 12 days before due date.
Again 2mos go by and the same thing again they removed the charges and told me to mail it out earlier so I mail the payment 14 days before due date.
And yet again 2 mos another late charge called them up they said it was my problem and they would not take the charges off I talked to a supervisor and got no where and they were just plain nasty,I told them I would pay the balance and the charges and they could stick the card where the sun never shined.
Fast forward about 1 1/2 years later I get a letter from a legal firm for a class action suit against Visa for not processing payments in a timely matter it stated that Visa was holding back posting to accounts up to 10 days,I never did send the paperwork back to the attorneys figuring that the postage stamp would cost me more than I would get back from the lawsuit

 

[JDgreen227]

Ken,

That's not entirely true. The credit card companies do not make interest on our balances, but as you know they make 3% on our charges. I remind them of that when I call to have charges removed. Actually, we are referred to as "deadbeats" in the credit card industry because we don't carry a balance.

I hope you have a good 2011, Ken.

Chris

I'm a "deadbeat" huh...there goes my credit score for Twenty-eleven...

But have a safe and happy New Years Eve, you all !!!!

 

[tallyho8]

I know they don't make any money on cardholders like me, but the point is, my credit score should be better than those who carry a balance and pay interest. They figure it backwards, IMO.

First you have to understand what a "credit score" is. It is not what you think.

It is not a figure to determine how credit-worthy you are or how you are financially able to pay off loans.

It is a figure that reflects how much money the credit card companies can make off of you in high interest and other fees. The more money they make off of you gives you a higher credit score because you are a more valuable customer for credit card companies.

Us "deadbeats" who can afford to pay off our cards each month with no interest charges do not generate large incomes for the companies each month, hence the lower credit score rating.

A good credit score rating is the same to a bank as a platinum casino card is to a casino. It simply shows that you make THEM a lot of money.

 

[tallyho8]

Also, remember that the new consumer credit card protection laws only benefit individuals.

The credit card companies are now busy pushing "business credit cards" that are available to just about anyone. These cards do NOT have to comply with the new consumer protection laws and can have amazingly high fees and charges while offering rebates as a come-on.

I use these new business cards and get about $50 a month in rebates with no fees but I am extremely careful not to incur any additional fees.

I know the merchants don't like these cards because it makes them incur additional fees but I'll be darned if I pay the merchants cash just so that they can make more money and me have less.

The banks will always get their share of the money you spend using a credit card, it's just that some cards charge the merchant more and some charge the consumer more. Since the amount spent on these cards is divided about 50/50 the merchant comes out about even in the deal but naturally he would prefer for all consumers to use the card that charges him the least and cost you the most.

 

[dmccarty]

After I dumped the CC from Chase I got a VISA from REI. You have to be a member of REI but I already was so it was a who cares. Heck I think it only costs $20-30 to be a lifetime member so who cares. The card gives 1% back on all purchases. I put almost everything on the CC to get that 1% back. I get the cash back in the spring and it really adds up. I have looked at other CC's that give better percentages but they have too much small print for me to mess with. I guess it might be worth while but they seem to be playing reward point games instead of simple cash.

Chase just sent me a new CC form. Lots of reward points. I do not think I will be using them. :laughing:

We are members of a Credit Union but our loans are from a big bank. Go figure. We get better service at the big bank than we have at the CU. The CU would not give us a loan for our land and were a PITA for a construction loan. The big bank was much easier to deal with. We had a disaster closing with the big bank but it was the loan officer fault not the bank. In fact the way the bank dealt with the mess was a huge plus. We have dealt with many loan officers, from several different branches in different cities from this big bank and the service, with the one exception, has been excellent. Go Figure.

The good thing is that we do have a choice. If one bank or CC is performing poorly there is another one on the corner.

What stinks is when you are stuck with a service provider and cannot change. We had billing issues with the kids Dr. The billing person was an idiot. I got to the point that I would pay NO bill by mail. Everything was paid in person and a receipt given. When we moved they did not send us a few bills that was no more than $50-75. One was for $3. We had been getting some bills but a few were missed by them. They sent us to collection for a $3 bill. We were spending thousands of dollars with them during that time period so you would think they would notice some bills go paid while a few did not. The twit sent the bills to collection. Not sure what made me more angry , the twit at the Dr's officer or the collection thugs.

I would have stopped going to the Dr's practice but the DR's were too competent. We have had some real hacks that almost killed one kid so when we found a competent DR we were sticking with them regardless of billing issues. We are still at that practice and once they got rid of one person the billing issues went away.

Later,
Dan