Used Value vs Age

[Cougsfan]

But in most areas I have seen, there are job postings all over the place, and the people who will work hard are already working.

I believe you may find a bunch of folks living on extended unemployment, etc. 'Round here. $10-15/hour is a decent wage (even when part of that goes toward cheap rent on our property). Again, no longer living in the big city, our "living wage" is probably somewhere around $12/hr (I know many folks living - and saving $ every month - making less). Out here it isn't all about $150+ bottle cognac, $80k+ cars/trucks, eating out every day, etc etc. With these truths, it's really hard to pull folks away from their tv's & couches when Uncle Sugar will pay them the same for doing nothing. I'm not bring political, just being a realist.

Probably the best thing to do with "everyone" that is able-bodied but still on unemployment would be to give them a choice. Start working immediately or draft them into the Military - seriously, maybe then they would understand what "America" is and why folks like myself were willing to die for those who have some of these F'd up ideas/opinions. Please don't take this personally, I'm not specifically speaking about you, but of the AOC's if the world.

Final thought: why don't we institute a mandatory draft (all 72+ sexes) of ALL able-bodied people for a period of 3-4 years. Then everyone could have their free college, medical care, etc without spending trillions?

Some of us enjoyed the military enough to spend 20-30+ years and retire. And NO I'm NOT what many believe - a person without any skills, education or marketable intelligence - My clients have told me I have more "marketable" degrees than a thermometer, but I sure do enjoy working this dirt/land and selling what we can't eat, can etc for ourself.

You make some good points.
However, in my neck of the woods there is no way you can even maintain a minimal life style on $12/hr. You just can't! You'd have to be living with your parents or getting some support from somewhere else. And there is a uncomfortably large percentage of our population living in that scenario. And I am not talking about those getting a free living off the government.

I do also agree that people should not be paid for doing anything. We don't need that many people in the military though. We'd probably have to start a war to give them something to do. Perhaps something like the job core of the 1930's would be better. We talk about our infrastructure needing work. Well, let them do it. Some people would probably complain this would be just like communism, but it really wouldn't be any different than serving in the military, except you'd be carrying a shovel instead of a gun.

 

[IndyJay]

 

[OzarkChris]

You make some good points.
However, in my neck of the woods there is no way you can even maintain a minimal life style on $12/hr. You just can't! You'd have to be living with your parents or getting some support from somewhere else. And there is a uncomfortably large percentage of our population living in that scenario. And I am not talking about those getting a free living off the government.

I do also agree that people should not be paid for doing anything. We don't need that many people in the military though. We'd probably have to start a war to give them something to do. Perhaps something like the job core of the 1930's would be better. We talk about our infrastructure needing work. Well, let them do it. Some people would probably complain this would be just like communism, but it really wouldn't be any different than serving in the military, except you'd be carrying a shovel instead of a gun.

We don't need that many people in the military though. We'd probably have to start a war to give them something to do.

It really amazes me that people think the Military is "Only" a fighting force! Why not let the Military do those things that are infrastructure related? They have people trained to do almost (if not) all of the trades both professional and blue collar. Need a new highway, they have people to do that. Need a new church/priest/rabbi etc, they have people to do that. Need a new hospital/Physicians/nurses, etc, they have people to do that. Need somebody to recover our citizens left in Afghanistan, Yes we have those people too - who are ready and willing to go over there and get them out but haven't received orders. Need to build a border wall, they can do that as well. Need research and development of new widgets, they can do that as well. Need a new chip developed and made, you guessed it, they have folks that can do that too and the list could go on and on and on! As long as the number of people in the military is in excess of the number necessary to ensure the defense and sovereignty of the USA , the excess numbers would be able to work on these items full time and the labor would already be paid for - these excess things are known as "Training". The advantage to having them in the military is that if they don't want to be at work that day "they" would be forced to work or go on sick call, rather than be allowed to just go back to the rack and sleep e.g., Job Corps. The discipline and training given is worth more $$$ than any welfare program or "infrastructure" plan currently around and giving folks something to have pride in/noted accomplishments, would probably keep most from returning to the streets as thugs, drug dealers etc etc. I'm NOT saying that everyone in the military are saints, we have our bad apples as well, but typically, per capita we have fewer than those that are on welfare programs.

Some people would probably complain this would be just like communism, but it really wouldn't be any different than serving in the military, except you'd be carrying a shovel instead of a gun.

I really like the original Job Corps and have supported them in the past; however, what the "infrastructure plan" encompasses is far different than the old Job Corps. The plan is for including Free jr college, day care, pre-K education, housing/medical care for illegal aliens etc etc. The current Job Corps is more of a Climate/Activist group - look at the websites! As is going on with extended Unemployment, Free everything from cradle to grave will make the problem worse rather than better.

 

[OzarkChris]

You make some good points.
However, in my neck of the woods there is no way you can even maintain a minimal life style on $12/hr. You just can't! You'd have to be living with your parents or getting some support from somewhere else. And there is a uncomfortably large percentage of our population living in that scenario. And I am not talking about those getting a free living off the government.

I do also agree that people should not be paid for doing anything. We don't need that many people in the military though. We'd probably have to start a war to give them something to do. Perhaps something like the job core of the 1930's would be better. We talk about our infrastructure needing work. Well, let them do it. Some people would probably complain this would be just like communism, but it really wouldn't be any different than serving in the military, except you'd be carrying a shovel instead of a gun.

in my neck of the woods there is no way you can even maintain a minimal life style on $12/hr

I totally understand that my neck of the woods is different than in the Pacific NW. (even on the east side). I don't begrudge areas saying that their "living wage" is higher, I do however, believe that the federal government needs to keep their grubby hands out of this matter. Maybe Washington state can increase their sales tax to supplement living wages out there. Don't make my taxes go up to support your lifestyle though. Don't force me to live that lifestyle if it is something I don't want to do and Don't make me and my neighbors pay for programs we don't believe in unless and until you and your neighbors start paying for programs that will help us too. Do I hear a new tax for Free Cows? Free Corn/grass/vegetable seeds? Planters/Tractors/etc, etc? How about a new tax in Washington to pay for my property mortgage?

I know that sounds silly, but honestly your (States) programs are very much like that and I would no more want you to pay for my bills than I would want to pay for yours so lets all just let the states decide what they want to do and how THAT STATE IS going to pay for it without federal involvement that constitutes increasing taxes on everyone else for programs we don't want or need. Everyone has a choice where they want to live, you can live in East Washington, Los Angles, San Diego, New York city etc etc or you can live in a more rural state (like Arkansas - just don't bring your politics, we do NOT want to become your state) where the cost of living is lower (by choice, upbringing etc). Many say they have to stay in a certain area because of jobs, thats a bunch of BS! You might NOT have that cushy job that you once had but you can always join an apprenticeship and work your way back up the ladder.

 

[ljjhouser]

View attachment 717109
Peace

Or life.

 

[bvanek]

I think we have to keep all this in perspective. You are right, there is no way robotic tractor is close to being ready for prime time. But so were fossil fuel tractors 110 years ago. The argument you made about 2 hired hands being cheaper is interesting because good luck on hiring 2 hired hands these days who are worth hiring.

And using the argument against the extreme environmentalist (which has some validity) to nullify the need for all environmental concerns also has its issues. The best answers are probably somewhere in the middle.

And using the argument against the extreme environmentalist (which has some validity) to nullify the need for all environmental concerns also has its issues. The best answers are probably somewhere in the middle.

This is an old thread and likely dead but I read through much of it as it meandered through peoples thoughts and debates. Really very important issues that could have a lasting effect on America. and how it's middle class citizens get victimized by ideological groups that play the "I'm educated and therefore i know what you need more than you do "card. I consider myself an environmentalist but not in the sense as it is portrayed today. Even the Greenpeace founder said environmental concerns have been hijacked by politics, and as Haydude noted, is about power, control, and money........and so we must put that in our purview when we look at the bureaucratic establishments rather disingenuous approach to the well being of our planet.

But as I read through the comments, I did find something that made me feel good. .....


......That farmers, rural landowners, essentially the unincorporated USA and Canadian citizens have a pretty good grip on reality. I think the general assumption is that rural folks are not aware or disinterested in the welfare of America/Canada as a whole. The "ruling class" and their ideological pawns are the ones who introduced politics into our livelihoods and it's their extreme, ever encroaching mandates and permissions that literally forces us to fight back...... and fight back we must.
I found that many of the folks in here are pretty good at doing the math, finding the right resources, and just having experience to support their opinions....Thus, they (meaning the moral/ environmental high ground do-gooders are getting a bit nervous that maybe we might be on to them and do notice the schemes and hoaxes they are attempting to install in our hearts and minds.
so, i took this excerpt from Cougsfan (I think he lives in Washington State and I live in (rural) Oregon.) both of these states have a very small, almost negligible voice in what happens in our States. As land mass goes we are more dominate but not dominate in population so we lose just about everything. So pertaining the bottom quote: While I agree that the best solutions are in the middle, we no longer have this middle ground because the dems have moved out of this area....I'm an old native guy from Oregon. I'm not making this up

 

[5030]

Bottom line for me is no wheeled toasters on this farm.

 

[Jchonline]

NO!
NO!
NO!
You MUST have competition to insure costs and quality are controlled

I am not really interested in paying a private business what they can get on the market for a basic necessity like electricity. I am fine with them building and running them…but the Cost needs to be somehow controlled by the government. Thats the check on the ridiculous runaway electricity bills some in TX got last year. Balance.

 

[Hay Dude]

I am not really interested in paying a private business what they can get on the market for a basic necessity like electricity. I am fine with them building and running them…but the Cost needs to be somehow controlled by the government. Thats the check on the ridiculous runaway electricity bills some in TX got last year. Balance.

How can you let a government control the cost of energy bills and at the same time give them control over natural resources (drilling or fracking rights, etc.)
Thats a recipe for disaster.

 

[Jchonline]

How can you let a government control the cost of energy bills and at the same time give them control over natural resources (drilling or fracking rights, etc.)
Thats a recipe for disaster.

I am not a fan of fracking at all. States have done a decent job of deciding what type of drilling/fracking is best for their communities so far. Some allow it, some dont. I am not saying the federal government….government could be city/county/state.

When there is a resource everyone MUST have access to, companies get really greedy and often use it take advantage of consumers. Healthcare is another great example. Health systems and insurance companies take advantage of people in need of care. When I see that I have no problem with a state law that doesnt allow hospitals to balance bill.