USA vs JAPAN

[r0GuE]

I thought it ironic that this question would occur to me over the Memorial day weekend, especially with all the Pearl Harbor hubub. I just found out that the BX2200 I am going to send back on Tuesday was made in Japan and the one they will bring me to replace it with was made in Georgia.
Soooo, the question that occurred to me was, "I wonder if there is better quality at one plant than the other. Are the parts absolutly interchangeable. I dunno, in the past I probably would have prefferred a Japanese built machine but my personal experience so far indicates otherwise. Besides, Georgia built machines dont spend 3 weeks in the salt air.
I guess my opinion of the stereotypical American made products quality problems is that it is not usually a problem in manufacturing (i.e. worker capability and dedication) but rather that the profiteering corporate heads had widened the tolerances to achieve higher profits. I am relitivly certain that Kubotas quality standards would be the same at both plants. But, that said, I do wonder?

Rogue

 

[TresCrows]

Gosh Roque you may be taking a swing at a hornets nest and me by answering. My experience leads me to believe the recent, last 20 years or so, anti capitalism sentiment--ie the big boss wants all the money and if he would let them the poor workers would make a superior product--nah, I am not buying that. We Americans have become at large--fat, lazy, insolent and some other things too. Not all but enough. The Unions don't help with the attitude either. It is in my opinion not MR Biggs but the lazy worker that is the probelm--no motivation. When people are motivated to achieve Americans are the best but were has the fire gone--we are to busy sueing one another for one thing cuz everything is someone elses fault including poor quality. I think my BX is from GA. My Tundra is from Indiana ? My unstoppable bullet proof little Toyota is from Japan. Could the mindset and attitude be different at these plants, maybe it's a start. Course robots may be the best solution. J

 

[r0GuE]

Yeah, I figured this one might make me famous.. ;^)
Based on my Engineering experience and my interaction with Engineers who have worked for lage American automakers, I have to say that it is plain and simple. The tolerances are very very much wider. Making the individual components cheaper. I am no anti-capitalist. No one who mows a 1 acre yard with a 10 grand machine could have got there being anti capitalist!! he he...
That said, I don't really disagree with you either. I've seen some pathetic examples of worker indifference also. I have never owned an American car. I refuse to do so since I watched the doors on my Dads Pontiac hang damn near to the dirt cause the hinges were so poorly designed. He drove VWs from then on out. I've owned Toyotas and Hondas and Isuzus and VWs. Some better than others but all better than what was offered comparably by the US manufacturers. I do beleive though that the US makes some items much better than foreign sources. Usually high end custom products. Oh well, I digress. I love my country and I have immense gratitude and respect for our veterens but I have to put my dollars toward the best product if only to make my country build better products to compete.
When a company markets their product by telling me that I am not a patriot if I dont buy their product, they are essentially telling me that their product is not as good.
Kind of like the JD dealer who kept comparing his product to the Kubota. "Just as good as" That just told me that the clearly superior product must be in fact the Kubota. Plus it doesn't have a silly yellow seat!!!!
Ohhh I'm gonna git in trouble 4 that one!!!! ;^)
Have a good holiday everyone!!!!!!

Rogue

 

[Anonymous Poster]

How much of USA is in these machines?
Remember The T series ie check - http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/9904/9823591c3863kubotacmp.htm and http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/9904/9823591c3863kubota.do.htm How much of the machine is being made in USA vs Japan
Are parts cast and inspected in USA? Is it just minor mods and assemble of Japanese parts?

 

[frank_f15]

ROUGE: are u sure one is made in geogia? or just assembeled in georgia? i don't beleive there would be any difference, just like your chevy that is made in canada with an engine made in ny and assembled in ohio. they are all one in the same. it is the way of the world today. i do beleive all parts will be interchangable. as much as i would like to by all american products, it is impossible!!!! even the jolly green machine is not made in usa, it is just assembled here with foreign made parts. going to get some static on this i am sure.

 

[kokopelli2]

jeez guys you really going to hit a sore not with alot of people with this one. i will give you my two cents. after visiting some major auto plants in the tokyo region i can tell you they are nothing like we have here. the people have breakfast together and exercise together everyday not to mention you could eat off the floor at any time of the day! i am sure you have asked yourself why the japanese make cars in the states now....well it has nothing to do with americans wanting to by american. it is all ecomomics. it is cheaper for the japanese to make cars in the states than it is to make them in japan. look at the price of cars built there compared to here. how is the new sequoia(sp?) cheaper than a land cruiser and it is bigger?
it all comes down to money.
i think that a bota from japan will be a better machine though.

 

[jdkid]

Hi ya rogue
i'll add my 2 cents here when i had 2 case ih's 7210 and 5130 i looked at updateing the 5130 to a mx 110 now i had a pick 1 made in england or 1 made in the USA if i went ahead with the deal i would have taken the USA 1.. but here's where a few probs come in the one made in england was speck better to hiller ground (tires wieghts etc etc)and UK ,NZ AUS and EU spec's, now heres how i look at it if brand XYZ mod 55 is made in USA ,NZ, UK ,china inda and the com has a ISO rateing then all parts, paint ,stud pattern etc etc would be the same ie the "main"running gear some addon may be diffrent to suit countrys spec's hot ,cold,hilly, flat
catch ya
JD Kid

 

[Myles]

My Bx2200 doesn't have a letter in the serial # but according to the sticker...it says Georgia.....nothing about Japan.

 

[RobertN]

We have tariffs that make it too expensive in general to build a Toyota or whatever overseas. Tax them when they come in... Fairs fair though; they do the same...

I don't remember where, but a couple years ago read something about the overall quality of Honda's built here being higher than those in Japan.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[RobertN]

Farmall Day

Left the Kubota parked today. Didn't drive the Jag. Was hard, couldn't help but what the mitsubishi TV.

Drove the Farmall today. Figured for my collection I will need to add a blue Ford, and a White Farmall Demo machine.

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[Wingnut]

Robert, you beat me to it ... the reason that foreign companies build plants here is because of the tariffs (another hidden tax to the buyer) enacted to protect American businesses from "unfair" competition.
I would have to difsagree with you, though, about the quality being better here ... my experience and what I've read says the opposite. The most trouble-free cars in the US are built in the NUMI plants in California ... and that's a joint venture between Toyota and GM ... run on the Japanese process instead of the Management vs. the UAW process.
Quality on the Saturn has dropped dramatically since the union has forced it to become a standard part of GM with standard work processes instead of the Japanese method previously employed at the plant.
I'm not saying we can't build a quality product in the US ... we can still outbuild anyone, anywhere! However, some of the stronger unions have a vested interest in building a lower quality product so they can keep the product churning (and keep the spare parts flowing).
Just my opinion, of course.

too bad that common sense ain't

 

[PaulT]

Just wondering why larger tolerances would decrease cost. With CAD and other technologies available today, within the capabilities of the machines, we can set tolerances to anything we like. If your engineering friends are telling you that specifications for tolerances are being relaxed, I highly doubt it. While I don't KNOW this is true in the automotive industry, I know for a fact this is not happening in the aerospace industry. The engineers just call out the specs on the prints, and we follow 'em. No more or less expensive to spec them with high or low tolerances. Tolerances like clearances between bearings, or measurements of how wide a hood is, and therefore how closely it matches a fender, are pretty much exact these days. When the QC guys check the tolerances, if they aren't within spec, they are supposed to throw them out. If what you are saying is that management has instructed the QC testers to "pass" parts that fall outside of the quality range, I doubt it. My reason - there's nothing in it for them. They just send them back to the supplier and make them re-do them. (Even if the supplier is another internal division). For that reason, parts that are the wrong dimension are usually scrapped and the machine is reset. If the fender/hood gap is off, its because the assembler didn't align it correctly -- not because the stamping machine didn't make the hood the right width. With regard to fit and finish quality, that is due to the worker not actually tightening the nut, finishing the weld, etc, etc, according to his training -- i.e. LAZINESS!!

PaulT

 

[r0GuE]

Actually you said it yourself, the tighter you set the spec, the more parts you have to "throw out". If the cap to the kanueder valve has threads with a (+/- 1/8") instead of (+/- 1/64th), it will be much cheaper to produce because the process can be run looser and inspection will find less parts that must be discarded. Multiply that cost savings by the thousands of parts on a car. The savings is alot.
You also bring up a good point in quality resulting from bussiness type, UAW vs Management doesn't lead to the best possible product (except in the comercials).
I remember a Saturn commercial shortly after they went GM/UAW I think, where they were bragging that they shut the plant down for a day to give everyone safety glasses. Should I feel good about that cost being passed on to me?
WOAAAHHH boy are we off the Kubota topic.

Rogue

 

[r0GuE]

I'll add this after re-readingyour post,
It doesn't cost more to design tighter tolerances (CAD). Just to actually make them happen.

Rogue