"Upgrading" 4X20 Series

[ChrisJD4320]

I have a friend who does performance tuning of cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc. I mentioned I had a 4320 and he said he was familiar with the tractor.

He said he has reprogrammed the PROM to give a 4X20 series tractor MUCH more boost, performance etc. I know there has been much speculation about the differences between 4120-4720 models. Can it be as easy as a PROM update? Has anyone actually found the terminal? Ive read on TBN that the power tech engine is used in much higher hp applications. Heck my 4320 might end up being a 4920!!!

 

[Z-Michigan]

From what I've read on here there is no mechancal difference between the 4120 and 4720, only engine tuning via computer. I for one find this a pretty offensive business practice, given the large price difference between those. I would think anyone who can reprogram the computer can turn any of them into a 4720, maybe even add more hp. IMHO the 4720 has as much hp as you could ever use in that size chassis.

 

[Greyfields]

If you figure it out, I'd like to be the first to know.

 

[matthew3120]

I was talking to one of machnics at the shop about putting the HP on my 3120 when I had it but know i have 4120 and would like more powerbut there a catch to having more power. They said you cannot turned up the Hp because if you ever take it into to have it serviced and if they send in the computer and it has been tamped with you and the dealer can get a big fine from Emissions regulations. And yes just by get your hand on a lap top computer and the cable and program you can get as much as 70HP out of 4X20.I was also going to get the chip for the proformace CPU for a 4720 but they will not sell me one. If you could find a junk 4720 that was wrecked or damage and for sale for parts just take the whole computer out.

Matthew3120

 

[Z-Michigan]

I'm a bit skeptical that tuning up a 4120 would raise any emissions issue because the exact same engine makes 15 more hp in the 4720. Beyond that level maybe there would be an issue, but let's see proof. To me this sounds like the line of cow droppings stated by JD and others to justify charging an extra $5000 to get the top end model which costs them exactly the same to make as the bottom model.

 

[Greyfields]

I'm a bit skeptical that tuning up a 4120 would raise any emissions issue because the exact same engine makes 15 more hp in the 4720. Beyond that level maybe there would be an issue, but let's see proof. To me this sounds like the line of cow droppings stated by JD and others to justify charging an extra $5000 to get the top end model which costs them exactly the same to make as the bottom model.

QFT

 

[BillyP]

I'm a bit skeptical that tuning up a 4120 would raise any emissions issue because the exact same engine makes 15 more hp in the 4720. Beyond that level maybe there would be an issue, but let's see proof. To me this sounds like the line of cow droppings stated by JD and others to justify charging an extra $5000 to get the top end model which costs them exactly the same to make as the bottom model.

If one really wants to know... Go to Jdparts and see if these 4x20 engines take the same pump and injectors

 

[Z-Michigan]

If one really wants to know... Go to Jdparts and see if these 4x20 engines take the same pump and injectors

It's been discussed on other threads here and per other users who looked it up, the answer is yes. I am not aware of any mechanical difference in these models other than the badge and the lack of a gear-transmission option on the 4720.

 

[wolc123]

Where did you hear/read that there was no gear trans available in a 4720? My neighbor has one or maybe he just put new stickers on his 4120/4320/4520

 

[DHAUG]

Is the same true for the 3x20 series?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Where did you hear/read that there was no gear trans available in a 4720? My neighbor has one or maybe he just put new stickers on his 4120/4320/4520

I got that from a brochure for the 4x20 series I picked up last December. Maybe they used to offer that option and don't any more?

 

[sweetjeep]

I have been told by a local dealer that the difference is in boost pressure.

He couldn't tell me more, but I might suspect that there is a boost guage in the system somewhere that reads boost and adjusts the fuel pressure to compensate to add power.

If there is a compensator, it's a "simple" case of either adding more boost by modifying/changing/adjusting the turbo.

If there is no compensation there is CLEARLY an adjustment on the fuel pump to boost pressure (more fuel).

The catch is the turbo.

If the turbo is variable vane (unlikley) then you can modify the computer to add boost.

If it's a static vane, then NO AMOUNT of computer modification will do anything. You MUST mofidy the turbo itself.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I would think reprogramming the chip would be a start. If you go to Nebraska tests, you'll see boost goes up about 2lbs per model. But with more boost, you need more fuel. So, its more than 1 thing....Haven't checked to see if the same exact model of hydro tranny is installed in all 4 models.

 

[AJDNUT]

There are programs available from different manafacturers that make power programmers for trucks available on the market for a few of the larger machines. I am not aware of any for the compacts or utilities.
I will bet though just like with the programs for the trucks you will need to off load the program before taking the unit in for service or warranty work. Additionally these units will code like an automobile and if an issue is recognized as being at all related you will suffer a loss of warranty on that issue. However, that wouldn't stop me, and never has on any of my trucks.

 

[sweetjeep]

Can anyone report on what turbo is in a 4120, 4320 or a 4720.

I swung by the dealer and they had a couple 45's, but that was all. It was wearing a teeny tiny Borg Warner unit. I wrote the model down but of course the BW website doesn't mention it by name nor do they really get into any specifics of the unit.

Of course I was in a hurry and wasn't smart enough to actually LOOK at the unit to determine if it was a variable geomerty unit or not.

Either way, if someone can tell me what one of the other tractors is wearing, then we'll have an answer pretty quickly.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Several months ago there was another thread on this same topic and someone reported that they had looked up the parts numbers from JD for every part of the engines in the 4x20 series and every last part was the same. Might be worth digging for that thread. I believe only the computer setting differs.

 

[sweetjeep]

Several months ago there was another thread on this same topic and someone reported that they had looked up the parts numbers from JD for every part of the engines in the 4x20 series and every last part was the same. Might be worth digging for that thread. I believe only the computer setting differs.

Yes, I recall that thread.

"Every" part can't be the same. For example: If it's a simple computer setup change, then the program on the computer will have a different part #. Granted, it might not be a part #, but there has to be evidence somewhere.

I'll know about the turbo by Sunday (hopefully) when my 4720 arrives. I'd have just assumed buy the 4120 in hopes of upgrading it, but a deal presented itself!

 

[CWP37]

This thread inspires me. I'm selling my old 2WD 5103 and looking to get a new model 4WD 5103. Only problem is that the new 5103 is a drop in hp and pto hp. That bumps me up to a 5203 (JD marketing trick).

You guys seem to know your stuff a lot better than I do. Can I but a 2008 4WD 5103 and have someone kick up the hp for me?

 

[RollTideRam]

Has anyone contacted tsperformance.com ? They have been making upgrades for diesel trucks for years. They have an ad on the back of the Tractorhouse book I got a few weeks back for their Agripower Series tuners. Maybe for bigger tractors but may be worth contacting. They offer these for Case IH, Deere, Cat, Agco, NH, MF, Gleaner, Valtra. JC

 

[sweetjeep]

It's possible someone will decide to get into the compact market.

The TS Performance guys didn't do anything special, they simply ported their codes over to the ag equipment that uses standard typical commercial motors.

I have a feeling that on the CUT units, JD is (actually) building and designing their own motor and as a result not letting the details out in the open because they don't have to. With a Yanmar motor the details get out in the open because there are no Yanmar dealers where you go to get your stuff fixed. On the other hand, the Yanmar motors might not offer enough headroom in each series to warrant attention. I don't know.

What I CAN say, is that in regards to the 4x20 series.. they all have the same turbo and it's NOT a variable vane. The part numbers are the same, at a mininum they are the same between the 4320 and the 4720. Same model and part #.

It is possible that they pump is simply turned up. With a diesel, in many cases, you can create a motor, add a ton of boost and then the HP is controlled by the fuel flow.

For example, in the early 90s VW took a N/A diesel and simply added a turbo, they got about 5-8 more HP and a bunch of torque, plus it burned cleaner. Take that same motor, and add fuel and the HP goes up.

*I* suspect that is exactly what is going on here. The turbo is a static vane and the same across the line. Which means boost is the same. But if the 4120 has a tuned back fuel pump, you get less HP, turn up the pump and you get more HP and a "different" model.