Upgrade from Massey GC1710 in the next year some questions around HP vs transmission power on HST

[LevesqueOnline]

Good Day All, looking for some advice for my property. my current tractor is my first, I only have around 200 hours on it so I am still very green.

Today I currently own a Massey GC1710 TLB. FANTASTIC tractor, no issues in the 6 years I have had it. I moved a few years ago to a bigger spot, its 4 acres on the water, very LONG strip 180 feet wide down to the water. Its pretty much all 30-40 degree. Weight / Width are things I need now here.

I will be looking to upgrade to a larger tractor in the next year as I build a road and need to maintain down to the water (box blade, brush hog for lower part and snow blower to keep clear in winter). I have never needed more PTO or pulling power than my massey has, so no big "power" concerns in that area

My question here is really size, my current tractor is too small, and lacks MID range like all tractors in that category. This makes coming up the property a long slow journey, so I am told I need a midrange and it will change my life.

Questions I don't feel I understand enough on below. I will be looking at the Kubota LX 26-33 or the Kioti CK 26-33 (HST), I dont want something too big, but dont want something too small.

1) my understanding with is the Kioti has significantly more hydraulic flow than the Kubota, does that in turn mean the transmission will pull better due to more flow? Kubota is also more than the little GC obviously, but but the Kioti has 11GPM versus the Kubotas 8.7 that sounds significant
2) if 1 is as I suspect I would still be fine with a 26HP tractor since the transmission will be strong enough, I suspect to handle my property in midrange?
3) I should mention i will likely get a cab (more for heat in the winter than AC) incase that changes any thoughts

 

[k0ua]

Your confusing the hydraulic flow of the accessory hydraulic pump with the hydrostatic transmission pump. They are two different things. The hydrostatic transmission does use a little bit of the flow from the accessory pump as a "charge pump" to make up the fluid loss in the hydrostatic pump, but this is a minor thing at a low pressure.. So to recap, When you see a pump rating of 8.7 Gpm and 11 Gpm. These figures have NOTHING to do with the flow rates or capabilities of the hydrostatic transmission, as that pump in the hydrostatic transmission is run off of the crankshaft of the engine. The accessory pump is run off of the camshaft of the engine and it runs the front end loader and the 3pt hitch and if equipped any remote selective control valves you may have on the tractor. ALSO this accessory pump usually has a second circuit to run the power steering geroter (power steering motor up under the dash) and a little of that circuit is used to feed the "charge pump" function in these small CUT sized tractors.

If it is of any consolation, Many people think that the accessory pump runs the Hydrostatic transmission, but it does NOT. The Hydrostatic transmission consist of hydraulic pump and a hydraulic motor all of its own. I hoped this helpled.

 

[LevesqueOnline]

Your confusing the hydraulic flow of the accessory hydraulic pump with the hydrostatic transmission pump. They are two different things. The hydrostatic transmission does use a little bit of the flow from the accessory pump as a "charge pump" to make up the fluid loss in the hydrostatic pump, but this is a minor thing at a low pressure.. So to recap, When you see a pump rating of 8.7 Gpm and 11 Gpm. These figures have NOTHING to do with the flow rates or capabilities of the hydrostatic transmission, as that pump in the hydrostatic transmission is run off of the crankshaft of the engine. The accessory pump is run off of the camshaft of the engine and it runs the front end loader and the 3pt hitch and if equipped any remote selective control valves you may have on the tractor. ALSO this accessory pump usually has a second circuit to run the power steering geroter (power steering motor up under the dash) and a little of that circuit is used to feed the "charge pump" function in these small CUT sized tractors.

If it is of any consolation, Many people think that the accessory pump runs the Hydrostatic transmission, but it does NOT. The Hydrostatic transmission consist of hydraulic pump and a hydraulic motor all of its own. I hoped this helpled.

Thanks I certainly learned a lot there. So there is no real way of knowing the power of the transmission so to speak? for example the Kioti weighs like 3000 lbs, the Kubota 2000, with similar power from the transmission the Kubota would be more ideal for me?

does the Hydrostat on a 30hp tractor have more power than a 26 for example?

 

[k0ua]

Thanks I certainly learned a lot there. So there is no real way of knowing the power of the transmission so to speak? for example the Kioti weighs like 3000 lbs, the Kubota 2000, with similar power from the transmission the Kubota would be more ideal for me?

does the Hydrostat on a 30hp tractor have more power than a 26 for example?

We can't really know how well the transmissions works. We would have to "assume" the engineer for each tractor, engineered a transmission with proper flow and torque. The VERY BEST thing you could do is to talk a dealer of each brand to let you trial each tractor on your place and see how they do on your terrain.

 

[k0ua]

Yes, as the tractors get larger and weigh more the transmissions are "sized up" to make those tractors operate with adequate torque and speed. Of course just how effective that engineering is in the real world would probably vary. I can tell you my Kioti works well and it is a very heavy tractor. I can do most tasks and climb my very steep hills in Med. range while pulling a blade to grade the road. But I cannot guarantee how your tractor will work on your place.

 

[Snobdds]

It's too bad you have to go bigger, the 1705, 1710, 1715, and 1720 have turned out to be very reliable and well built tractors. Dare I even say, a lot better than the new models made in India. The Japan made tractors are bomb proof.

If you need to upgrade, make sure it's a noticeable step up in power and capability. Going up by only once class of tractor is not worth it.

 

[k0ua]

And to add to your knowledge of hydrostatic transmission's, the hydraulic pump is driven directly from the crankshaft of the prime mover, Or engine if you prefer, and the flow and direction of that flow between the hydraulic pump and the hydraulic motor is controlled by a device called a swash plate. You move that plate with your foot and adjust its angle to control the amount of fluid that is sent to the hydraulic motor. There is NO mechanical connection between the pump and the motor, only a fluid one.

The swash plate has usually 9 "slippers" and pistons riding on the plate. The angle of the plate determines how much fluid the pistons pump and send to the hydraulic motor, and if the swash plate is turned back the other way, the direction of the flow is reversed, reversing the hydraulic motor. Behind the hydraulic motor is a 2 or 3 speed simple gear transmission. This is an unsynchronized simple "crash box" style of gear transmission. From there the power is hooked to the "final drive" gears and distributed to each rear axle and also to the shaft that goes forward to the front axle thru a shift lever of 4wd or 2wd.

 

[DieselBound]

30 to 40 degree slope?

I'd first assess the overall/total work that needs to be done. Does it require a dedicated machine, really? Can it be hired out (which eliminates equipment maintenance and repairs, and frees up time)?

Lots of folks resort to justifications based on convenience, and while there's value there I believe that in a lot of cases it's over-sold/over-valued.

 

[cdaigle430]

It's too bad you have to go bigger, the 1705, 1710, 1715, and 1720 have turned out to be very reliable and well built tractors. Dare I even say, a lot better than the new models made in India. The Japan made tractors are bomb proof.

If you need to upgrade, make sure it's a noticeable step up in power and capability. Going up by only once class of tractor is not worth it.

This is a very good point-If your going to upgrade it should not be in the subcompact as he already has a subcompact. My dad upgraded his 26hp Kioti to the 36hp-its like night and day. He has 87 acres of land to deal with.

 

[DieselBound]

I haven't upgraded. I just bought a bigger tractor: still have my smaller one. Sometimes, however, I wish that I'd even gotten a bigger one: I have limits on how big as I have a lot of trees to navigate around/through. But as I like to stress, you buy for the 80-90 percent and rent for the rest.