Understanding weight for traction

[Fl3930]

I bought a new to me tractor recently. A New Holland 3939 w/Ford 7310 loader. I used it a bit and decided I needed to get it serviced. As the hours has quit, and all I knew was the oil was black as a moonless night!!

Anyway when I pushed and dug out a stump at my daughters house with it I realized I was lacking traction! I dug down under the stump and tripped it out of the ground. I got the stump in the bucket and could not get the tractor to back out of the hole with the stump in the bucket. She just wanted to just spin. One thing I had another root from a nearby tree I didn't want to take out. And everytime I would back up to that root it was presenting a hang up and the one tire would begin to spin. However nothing I tried was working. So could not get it to back out of the hole with the stump no matter what I tried! Ended up dumping the stump out on the other side of the hole I had dug. Then I was able to use the bucket to assist me in backing up past the root that was casuing the tractor to spin, and she climbed backward out of the hole. I back filled and then picked up the stump and put it on the burn pile!!

So I mentioned this to the guy who is servicing the tractor and he said. "You need to fill those back tires with water and antifreeze! So I have been doing some reading since I am new to the site and I see talk about a new type of antifreeze. So looking for some advice on filling the tires.

Now just to throw this out there. I grew up in a small town in Nebraska. The town had a tractor they often used this tractor for maintenance on the towns roads. It was an N8 Ford or it could have been a Jubile. Anyway the tractor had what I think was probably a homemade front end loader. They used a half of A 50GAL. drum filled with concrete. It hung from the 3 point hitch system. I would suppose for two purposes,conter weight for the loader and rear weight for traction when loading the bucket.

So after throwing that out there about the concrete counter weight from the 3 point hitch. Would that be an option for weighting the rear of my 3930 NH?? One reason I am thinking along those lines it the tires on the tractor now have some dry rot! Nothing extremely bad but I would be hesitant to break the tires down to add a tube, without putting on a new set of tires! At present I don't really want to spring for new tires!

I know they make weights that mount to the rear tires but would the concrete counter weight work!! So I am looking forward to some discussion on this subject!

 

[seville009]

There are many threads on this, even one with posts today.

Yes - weight will certainly help, but there will be many instances when you have weight in the loader that the tractor will be light in the rear. You just have to work around it like you did.

 

[Gee Ray]

Yes you need ballast. Liquid in the tires is not the only way to add weight. You could always add iron wheel weights. The weight hanging off the rear of the 3 point should always be used when you are using the front end loader. I would spend the money to buy a box blade as a counter weight. A rotary cutter if you have one. There are several videos about making a counter weight.

This video will help get you started in the right direction.

Also:

 

[jeff9366]

Is your New Holland a 2-WD or 4-WD model?

Do you know how to engage the differential lock pedal with your heel?

Ford-New Holland 3930​

Dimensions
2WD Wheelbase:	84.5 inches 214 cm
4WD Wheelbase:	84.1 inches 213 cm
Length:	137 inches 347 cm
Height (ROPS):	91.3 inches 231 cm
Height (cab):	96 inches 243 cm
Operating weight:	5,446 lbs 2470 kg (4WD ROPS)

Ford 7310 Loader
Height (to pin):	120 inches 304 cm
Clearance, dumped bucket:	92 inches 233 cm
Dump reach:	34.25 inches 86 cm
Dump angle:	40°
Rollback angle:	43°
Breakout force (lift):	4905 lbs 2224 kg
Lift to full height (at pin):	2685 lbs 1217 kg
Bucket width:	60 inches 152 cm
	72 inches 182 cm
	84 inches 213 cm

 

[jeff9366]

Counterbalance mounted on the Three Point Hitch is more effective as counterweight for the Loader than tire ballast, pound for pound. Any new weight is going to add strain to your decrepit tires.

T-B-N ARCHIVE: cheap tractor counterweight site www.tractorbynet.com

For improving traction of a 2-WD tractor the cost efficient modification is liquid in the rear tires and/or, much more expensively, iron wheel weights.

I got the stump in the bucket and could not get the tractor to back out of the hole with the stump in the bucket.

Almost all weight was transferred onto the small front tires, away from the large, heavily treaded, rear tires.

I back filled and then picked up the stump and put it on the burn pile!!

The tires on the tractor have dry rot! I don't really want to spring for new tires!

Your are fortunate one of the tires did not deflate, causing the tractor to roll over. You cannot enjoy a tractor when you are dead.

Buy new tires. With sharp tire tread tractor traction will improve.


I fuel and grease my Kubota. Due to my age, all other service is performed by the dealer. I speculate your operating cost at $20.00 per engine hour with dealer service. As you add implements, your hourly operating cost increases.

I pushed and dug out a stump at my daughters house.
Repairing a tweaked Loader is $2,000 minimum.

 

[Root Cause]

There are good reasons why beet juice or other fluids are put into the tires.
Any weight below the axle is helping lower the center of gravity. The lower the better and nothing is lower than the lowest point of your tires.
You don't have to unload it or move it. It isn't in your way and you don't have to find additional room to store it when not in use.

I suggest you read up on other attachments or a carry-all before you strike out on other ways to weigh it down. If you are not planning on rear attachments, then I would be looking at a rear carryall that adds some weight but also carries tools you would frequently need. I might put center blocks on a pallet and enclose it on the sides and make a top so could put bags of soil, hay bales or ??? on top. A cheap set of forks if you ever want to remove it or put it on wheels.

 

[jeff9366]

Bare tractors are designed with a standard weight distribution of 40% front, 60% rear.

Add a Front End Loader and the weight distribution becomes 50% front, 50% rear. (+/-)

Fill the bucket and the weight moves forward, leveraged by low-forward position of a laden bucket.
Could be 60% front, 40% rear. (Tractor wheelbase affects weight distribution.)

Traction is reduced because weight has transferred away from the driving, heavy tread rear wheels.
(Hence the need for liquid rear tire ballast or iron wheel weights.)

Rear wheels may or may not lift from the ground at this moment, but they will certainly be "light" if bucket payload is wet.

Green tree trunk sections and laden pallets on pallet forks are often heavier than wet bucket loads. Laden pallets protrude forward. Weight distribution could be 70% front, 30% rear. Rear wheels will lift.

Suffecient Three Point Hitch counterbalance restores weight distribution to 40% front, 60% rear. (+/-)

Too much rear weight and the tractor front will lift when you move up a slope with the bucket empty.

 

[Fl3930]

A lot to read here. I just skimmed over it so will go back and take another look in a while! I told my son the other day it has been close to 40yrs now since I done a lot of tractor work or worked with any heavy equipment. So I am re-learning or learning and not to old to teach this ole dog a new trick or two!

Oh and my NH3930 is two wheel drive and it has Ag tires on it. In othewords big fat ones front and back!

 

[jeff9366]

My NH3930 is two wheel drive and it has Ag tires.

Do you know how to engage the differential lock pedal with your heel?

MORE: Do I need a 4 wheel drive tractor?

2-WD VS 4-WD site:tractorbynet.com

 

[Egon]

Tire weight has less negative effect on the tractor than three point weight from a wear prospective.

 

[Fl3930]

Do you know how to engage the differential lock pedal with your heel?

I do now! One of the first things I did after I bought the tractor was to buy a Ford shop manual. I quickly realized this was more about repair and what I needed was the operators manual. To learn more about the how to/and where it is located.

So while the tractor is being serviced I have been catching up on my reading! I actually did not realize their was a differential lock pedal. Now I know. Thanks!

 

[CobyRupert]

Tire weight has less negative effect on the tractor than three point weight from a wear prospective.

How so? I use loaded tires, but they don’t unload weight off the front axle like counterweight on the 3 point hitch does.

 

[Fl3930]

Tire weight has less negative effect on the tractor than three point weight from a wear prospective.

I can see that theroy!

I am just out of pocket more money than I thought I was going to be. Finding a decent used tractor cost me more than I was expecting. So new tires are going to have to go on the back burner for a while! I haven't a clue what a set of new tires would cost but like everything else these days I am sure they ain't cheap!!

The idea of a good box blade is appealing though!! Between a back grade on the bucket and a good box blade I use to be able to level up some ground!!

How so? I use loaded tires, but they don’t unload weight off the front axle like counterweight on the 3 point hitch does.

Coby I think what he is talking about is the weight on a 3 point hitch is constantly wearing the 3 point hitch. I have seen some wore out 3 point hitches and in fact the one on this tractor definately needs some maintenance!!

Anyway I have to get off of here and call the shop I have working on my tractor and see if they want two arms and a leg, or if just a leg will do!! LOL

 

[crashz]

Keep reading here! Search "ballast" and frontend loader work.

One thing to keep in mind, as you add traction and weight, you will significantly increase your tractors ability to break the loader. Digging force will increase as well as pulling forces. A gentle touch will be needed.

 

[mo1]

I bought a new to me tractor recently. A New Holland 3939 w/Ford 7310 loader. I used it a bit and decided I needed to get it serviced. As the hours has quit, and all I knew was the oil was black as a moonless night!!

Anyway when I pushed and dug out a stump at my daughters house with it I realized I was lacking traction! I dug down under the stump and tripped it out of the ground. I got the stump in the bucket and could not get the tractor to back out of the hole with the stump in the bucket. She just wanted to just spin. One thing I had another root from a nearby tree I didn't want to take out. And everytime I would back up to that root it was presenting a hang up and the one tire would begin to spin. However nothing I tried was working. So could not get it to back out of the hole with the stump no matter what I tried! Ended up dumping the stump out on the other side of the hole I had dug. Then I was able to use the bucket to assist me in backing up past the root that was casuing the tractor to spin, and she climbed backward out of the hole. I back filled and then picked up the stump and put it on the burn pile!!

So I mentioned this to the guy who is servicing the tractor and he said. "You need to fill those back tires with water and antifreeze! So I have been doing some reading since I am new to the site and I see talk about a new type of antifreeze. So looking for some advice on filling the tires.

Now just to throw this out there. I grew up in a small town in Nebraska. The town had a tractor they often used this tractor for maintenance on the towns roads. It was an N8 Ford or it could have been a Jubile. Anyway the tractor had what I think was probably a homemade front end loader. They used a half of A 50GAL. drum filled with concrete. It hung from the 3 point hitch system. I would suppose for two purposes,conter weight for the loader and rear weight for traction when loading the bucket.

So after throwing that out there about the concrete counter weight from the 3 point hitch. Would that be an option for weighting the rear of my 3930 NH?? One reason I am thinking along those lines it the tires on the tractor now have some dry rot! Nothing extremely bad but I would be hesitant to break the tires down to add a tube, without putting on a new set of tires! At present I don't really want to spring for new tires!

I know they make weights that mount to the rear tires but would the concrete counter weight work!! So I am looking forward to some discussion on this subject!

It looks like your problem there is you got hung up on a root. Even if you were properly ballasted, if you were hung up on something stout enough that you can't move it or break it, you will spin your tires. Once you got free of the root using the loader, you were able to back up just fine from what you wrote.

Ideal weight distribution for a 2WD tractor is 30% front, 70% rear. You can use fluid in the tires, iron weights on the wheels, weight on the 3 point hitch, or a combination of these.

If you have tubeless tires, a sane option to fill tires is just to have the tire shop pump in methanol and water. It is inexpensive, won't freeze if there is the proper concentration of methanol and you're not in the Arctic, it's not messy, and it's not particularly corrosive. The con is that it's a few pounds lighter per gallon than beet juice or calcium chloride. You will get roughly 700 pounds between the two rear tires with methanol and water. That would be roughly 900 pounds with the heavier fluids. I have methanol and water in my tires and it is what pretty much everybody uses around here in utility sized and larger tractors and what the tire shops have in 300 gallon totes in the back.

A 55 gallon drum filled with concrete will weigh roughly 1200 pounds. That would be a perfectly sane thing to use as counterweight, many people have done this. You can also use anything else heavy hanging off of the 3 point such as an implement.

Iron wheel weights for a 28" wheel are generally in the 300-500 pound per wheel range and cost about $1/lb. This is a LOT more expensive per pound than fluid in tires or concrete weight on the 3 point hitch.

Your loader's manual will have required minimum counterweight, and your tractor's manual will have the maximum allowable axle loads. You will want to ballast somewhere between the two figures.

 

[Egon]

How so? I use loaded tires, but they don’t unload weight off the front axle like counterweight on the 3 point hitch does.

Dead weight and live weight. One increases the axle load. The other has no effect. Loaded tires do not put weight on the axles.

 

[oosik]

I have 1550# of RimGuard in the rear tires on my M6040. This is NOT to counterballance the FEL and grapple. It's to keep my "feet" on the ground and for added traction.

I have a 1050# Rhino rear blade on the 3-point. THIS is to counterballance the FEL and grapple. And it does help with traction.

I would not fool around with fluid in your rear tires. You could likely cause unforseen problems with the old, weathered tires.

Put something on the 3-point. Preferably an implement that you will use. Box blade, rear blade, flail mower - etc. OR check any of the numerous threads here on TBN. There are loads of brilliant ideas for adding weight to the 3-point.