UDT - SUDT - another brand

[Adryan]

I know this has been discussed many times...

I changed the factory transmission oil in my BX2660. After searching the web I found many sources for the oil

Kubota...UDT (but they dont produce it)
Shell...Spirax S4 TXM
Q8...T2200
BP...Vanellis

the factories all have a web app. were you can enter the brand/type of the tractor, and come up with an advice using theire own oil.
I would think the big oil companies know what they are doing, not?


finally obtained local some Shell Spirax S4 TXM, so far so good...

 

[Volfandt]

This should start a good discussion

Bottom line, as long as the hydraulic oil meets UDT spec's it shouldn't tear your HST up.
Course UDT spec's are "baseline" for the BX series as Kubota has spec'ed SUDT (and now SUDT2) for them.
Basic difference between UDT & SUDT is UDT is a straight 20w whereas SUDT is a 10w20 multigrade - hense better flow in cold & hot temps....

Theres been many the poster that has used other brands with differing results.
The TSC branded oil(s) have given mixed reviews. They work and so far haven't caused any mechanical issues but many have reported that their HST's whined louder and performance was worse. A change back to OEM SUDT quieted them down.

Chevron makes a high priced Syn hydraulic oil that meets/exceeds SUDT spec's and those that have used it have given it great reviews. Same for the AMSOil equivilent. But, both are more expensive than SUDT(SUDT2).

Goodluck w/your choice. Perhaps you can share a review or two about it.
Dave

 

[TripleR]

I have run several different brands in two different BXs and our L5030; can't tell any difference. Our winters are fairly mild, so in extreme cold I might take a different approach.

 

[gwdixon]

The main difference that I've found in hydraulic oil is that the cheaper ones seem to thin out too much when they get hot.

Tried some Tractor Supply "Premium" oil in my L48 backhoe. It was fine at the start of a job. But when the work was really put to the backhoe the pump would act like the thinner oil caused "cavitation" and the boom would stutter. The cylinder would be quite hot.

The same kind of thing happened on my M7040 when hot. The hydraulic clutch would become more "grabby".

The little BX2200 would make quite a bit more noise and the hydraulics seemed slower. But they are slow anyway at low RPM so it may be just my imagination.

Using New Holland, Case, and Kubota hydraulic oils have eliminated the problems. I favor an oil designed for tractors. The other major brands, like Chevron, Shell, AMSoil, etc. are probably fine also.

None of the above comments are scientifically based - just observations.

 

[Adryan]

The Shell oil is a 10W30 multigrade oil.
I haven't noticed any change in performance so far.
For the whining I think I have a solution.
On the BX the whining is amplified by the ROPS. I have the idea of putting PU-foam inside of it. Just drilling some holes at the base plate and injecting the foam. .....good idea?

 

[JRobyn]

Is 10-30 or 10-40 engine oil better?

;-)

 

[Adryan]

sorry,

don't want to start a oil war...
Dave asked me to share my experience with the Shell oil.

Only reason I bought it is because I can't get any Kubota UDT local....
I'm just a bit confussed why people say you have to use Kubota UDT, since you can find the correct oil type (I think) on the Chevron/Shell/BP web sites,once you enter you're tractor.

and Paul....sorry for trying to solve the whining..
won't happen again...

 

[rambler]

You know I'm smiling ear to ear, for sure all in good fun and kidding.

I run 3 different brands of tractors on my farm some are from the 1940's and some are from the 1990's. They all can share hydraulic implements so they all basically have the same hyd oil from the fleet & Farm store, whatever Universal Trans-Hyd fluid they sell. I'm just sure to always get the stuff compatable with trannies, as some of the tractors have the common sump.

Anyhow, I talked to the ag dealer about changing my hyd oil in my (then) 15 year old tractor, he looked at me like I had grown another head, and said you know that takes 8 gallons, we just change filters regularly???? Learned my lesson 20 years ago from the experienced older dealer..... Tractor still has 35 year old hyd oil in it, tho a blown hose got a fair share of it replaced with new a few years ago.

So, I wouldn't even get excited about changing the hyd oil to begin with, and for sure I'd use a compatable, bulk hyd-tran oil that is cheaper than the dealer offers.

But - my farm experiences don't often translate well to homestead owners with 10 acres and a new compact tractor, so what I do or feel often is on the 'wrong' side of things like this.

Myself, I'd be just fine with the oil you got.

And I sure enjoyed the smile you gave me, please continue.

Oh - there have been long debates in the past on whether drilling a hole - any hole any size - in a ROPS causes a liabilty issue, voids any insurance claim, etc. So that's what I thought of when you talked of putting the foam in holes you drill.... I'm not sure what the foam would do, I'd look for loose bolts, or getting a gasket material clamped under the ROPS mounts, or some such? Aside from the hole/liability issue, foam can sometimes seal water into places it shouldn't be, and cause rust over a decade of sitting. At first brush I'm not keen on the foam doing any good, but I might not understand the situation.

--->Paul

 

[corey9212]

I read somewhere on the forums (I can't remember where) but it talks about the BX's running at higher RPMs than other tractors therefor producing more heat than usual in the Hydraulics. And something about kubota's SUDT can stand up to the extreme heat and not break down as easily. I will try to search for that thread and post it if I find it but I was in the same boat of why not use another Hydraulic fluid than Kubota's and when I read that post it has been Premium UDT (Canadian Brand) ever since.

 

[Adryan]

Paul,

the gear of the BX transfers the whining throught the frame to the ROPS. The ROPS is just behind your ears. The ROPS acts like a speaker enclosure. I'd thought if I'd fill it with foam the sound wouldn't been transferred.
...just a thought.:anyone:

sorry for the off topic...

 

[RayCo]

This is a question best discussed with your local philosopher. Here is my philosophy:

My tractor cost me $16,000. I am not a hydraulic fluid expert, nor a designer of HSTs. I realize that there is a very tiny chance that using an off-brand would cause a problem, but I am not willing to take that chance when it comes to something so costly and valuable to me. It is well worth the extra $50 for peace of mind.

 

[OrangeRidge]

.

I changed the factory transmission oil in my BX2660. ..

If you're in the US , your factory fill oil will have been SUDT .
Since hydro oil is not subject to combustion , its additives are
less important than in an engine environment . Moisture control
is the biggest aspect , after lubrication of course. Synthetic is
irrelevant in these machines . SUDT or JD HyGard ; whatever ........

 

[Ken45101]

Basic difference between UDT & SUDT is UDT is a straight 20w whereas SUDT is a 10w20 multigrade - hense better flow in cold & hot temps....

So that is why SUDT gives better winter performance in HST transmissions! Makes sense.

Is 10-30 or 10-40 engine oil better?

;-)

I know you are just stirring the pot, but Deere actually uses (their) 10W-30 engine oil for the hydraulic fluid in their skid steers! On a skid steer, the hydraulics run the drive motors.

Obviously they designed the system that way.

Kubota does NOT use UDT or SUDT for hydraulic fluid in their mini excavator. They recommend Shell Tellus or one other brand. Some of you think you have trouble finding UDT....

This is a question best discussed with your local philosopher. Here is my philosophy:

My tractor cost me $16,000. I am not a hydraulic fluid expert, nor a designer of HSTs. I realize that there is a very tiny chance that using an off-brand would cause a problem, but I am not willing to take that chance when it comes to something so costly and valuable to me. It is well worth the extra $50 for peace of mind.

^^^What he said. Seeing the variability I mentioned above, there must be some significant differences that the manufactures know about. Why else would Kubota NOT use UDT/SUDT in their mini ex's? Why would Deere use motor oil?

Of course, I do see a significant difference between a 50 year old gear tractor just using it for auxiliary hydraulics, and a newer HST unit using it for the prime drive train.

Ken

 

[CaptJCHill]

This is a question best discussed with your local philosopher. Here is my philosophy:

My tractor cost me $16,000. I am not a hydraulic fluid expert, nor a designer of HSTs. I realize that there is a very tiny chance that using an off-brand would cause a problem, but I am not willing to take that chance when it comes to something so costly and valuable to me. It is well worth the extra $50 for peace of mind.

If I were runing a fleet of same manufacturer equipment and putting on lots of time,I would look for a lower priced,but equivalent fluid.That not being the case for most of us here,I would do EXACTLY what the Owners/Service manuals say to do.Why would you put at risk beaucoup bucs for a small premium?
John
Kubota M5700
Bobcat 773t
SnapOn 3/8 ratchet (birthday present)

 

[RayCo]

SnapOn 3/8 ratchet (birthday present)

:laughing:

 

[Grateful11]

Has anyone ever had their Hydraulic Fluid fluid tested before changing it?

 

[PHILIP8N]

Has anyone ever had their Hydraulic Fluid fluid tested before changing it?

I did my engine oil, but not the trans/hydraulic/axle fluid. Good thought. Philip.

 

[crazyal]

When I bought my backhoe I went to the dealer to get the filters and oil to change the hydro fluid. They didn't have enough oil on hand (they use 55 gallon drums plumbed to overhead drops for all their oil and grease usage). He basically said that most people never replace all the oil. They just do the filters and between breaking hoses and stuff they loose enough oil that most people just buy the generic stuff and just top it off.

Of course on my Kubota the hydraulic oil is also the HST as well as the fluid for the attachments. That offers the chance to allow more contaminates and water to enter the system. For an old tractor it may not be too much of an issue but for a new tractor that you haven't got 20 to 30 years of service out of yet I don't see any reason not to give your tractor a little extra help to get there by changing the fluids.

 

[bp fick]

There are great products for universal tractor fluid made by good companies. The BX seems to operate best with a low vis fluid, of super premium quality.

The lower priced, higher viscosity stuff sold by rural stores would work, but the BX, in my experience, really benefits from super high quality, low vis fluid. Deere, Chevron, Case, Kubota, Warren Oil, Texas Refinery, etc all offer a super premium, low viscosity fluid, and yes, it is priced higher, by all of them.

Since the amount used in a BX is a relatively small volume, as compared to the larger machines, which may take 4 or 5 times as much, I see no point in scrimping.