UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!!

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   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #31  
Reading the title I expected to see nothing but narrow-minded views of the situation... That's certainly not been the case, has it?

Based on what I ~think~ i know, here are your major culprits...

1. Investment and funding. Mainly effected by this latest financial meltdown.
2. Sales decline due to:
A. Reduction in lending...due to financial meltdown
B. Gas prices hurting the profit-rich truck and SUV market
3. Investment in R&D and manufacturing to comply with CAFE changes.
4. Huge insurance and pension expenses.
5. Huge payouts to terminate labor. (Expensive but alleviates #4 long-term.)
6. UAW fat. (Jobs bank, protected positions, areas of inefficiency and finally assembly line labor.)

I'm 100% I'm overlooking something.


The UAW has to figure out a way to make Detroit an inviting place for the autos. The current contract structure is killing the job market here. Allowing for economical entry-level employment is a MUST.
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #32  
This is a copy of an email I received this morning.


A Ford Dealer in the Pittsburg area, outstanding letter to the editor

Intermountain Letter to the Editor- Elkins Fordland


Incredible editorial from one of our Dealers in the
Pittsburgh Region?
Attached is a well written "Letter to the Editor" from Elkins Fordland.

Editor:
As I watch the coverage of the fate of the
U.S. auto industry, one alarming and frustrating fact hits me right between the eyes. The fate of our nation's economic survival is in the hands of some congressmen who are completely out of touch and act without knowledge of an industry that affects almost every person in our nation. The same lack of knowledge is shared with many journalists whom are irresponsible when influencing the opinion of millions of viewers.
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama has doomed the industry, calling it a dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the '70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world.
When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the U.S. and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyota by 3,000 units.
When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers?
Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibu that beats the Accord? And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39 mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid? Ford's Focus beats the Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic?
When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back $1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government aid.
When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon.
Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than Nissan or Honda? Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than $22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen cars.
It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world!
Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the quality shift to American. Maybe it's the fact that his state of Alabama has given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for "government subsidies" is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Also, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions.
After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip!
We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages, benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap labor. We are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough.
Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and future product is excellent and the company is focused on one Ford. This is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team in the business.
The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?
As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be touched and is not necessary. Ford currently has $29 billion of liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements. Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of repayment.
So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the Big Three, a $25 billion loan is definitely better for the taxpayers and the economy of our country.
So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the rhetorical sense. I ask it in the sincere, literal way. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately?
Jim Jackson
Elkins

Totally agree!

The notion that the Big 3 "build cars nobody wants" is PURE BULL ____!!!!!

There's lots of GREAT American cars & trucks!!
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #33  
Anybody ever wonder what one of the big 3 auto's would actually cost us ... IF ALL THE BS WAS CUT OFF THE TOP????
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #34  
.PS.I am one of them lazy union workers (32 years IBEW)electric lineman,that have fought for a safe work place,health care for or familes,pensions,sick days,paid vactions.I have also worked my lazy butt off 18-20 hour shifts in the worst weather conditions that you can imagine while you were home sleeping in bed nice and warm.coobie

When the IBEW came in to our company it did nothing but hurt us. CEO looked foward to new contracts, he could divide the membership by giving to this group and that group but not to this group. Smart man he could do math. This is a right to work state, no mandatory union membership, no strike clause, very weak union here. Finally voted it out, got better raises and bennefits. DO NOT whine about the 18-20 hour shifts, yes the money is good but you stay in the industry because you do not want to do anything else. There is something that happens to a man after the first time he gloves high voltage. Get to handle a heavy loaded line and feel your gloves rattle, **** it don't get no better than that.
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #35  
This is a copy of an email I received this morning.


A Ford Dealer in the Pittsburg area, outstanding letter to the editor

Intermountain Letter to the Editor- Elkins Fordland


Incredible editorial from one of our Dealers in the
Pittsburgh Region?
Attached is a well written "Letter to the Editor" from Elkins Fordland.

Editor:
As I watch the coverage of the fate of the
U.S. auto industry, one alarming and frustrating fact hits me right between the eyes. The fate of our nation's economic survival is in the hands of some congressmen who are completely out of touch and act without knowledge of an industry that affects almost every person in our nation. The same lack of knowledge is shared with many journalists whom are irresponsible when influencing the opinion of millions of viewers.
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama has doomed the industry, calling it a dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the '70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world.
When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the U.S. and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyota by 3,000 units.
When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated Ford on par with good Japanese automakers?
Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibu that beats the Accord? And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39 mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid? Ford's Focus beats the Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic?
When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back $1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government aid.
When you criticize the Big Three for building so many pickups, surely you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31 straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150 you'll agree this won't change soon.
Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than Nissan or Honda? Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than $22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen cars.
It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroit are once again the best in the world!
Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the quality shift to American. Maybe it's the fact that his state of Alabama has given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for "government subsidies" is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Also, Alabama agreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's $180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in making your opinions and decisions.
After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus emergency vehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11 relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip!
We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages, benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap labor. We are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough.
Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and future product is excellent and the company is focused on one Ford. This is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team in the business.
The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25 billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem with $700 billion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?
As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be touched and is not necessary. Ford currently has $29 billion of liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements. Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of repayment.
So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the Big Three, a $25 billion loan is definitely better for the taxpayers and the economy of our country.
So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit. Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the rhetorical sense. I ask it in the sincere, literal way. Can you tell me, have you driven a Ford lately?
Jim Jackson
Elkins





This is total misdirection to take the focus away from the problem. Nobody is saying the problem is the quality of the vehicles being made.

The problem is that they cannot sell the vehicles that they make for a profit. Either they have to charge allot more, which means nobody is going to buy them, or they have to cut down on their expenses. When guys are making $55 an hour to assemble a car, you really have to wonder what they do to earn that kind of money? When management is making twice that much, you REALLY have to question what's going on with the way they spend their money. Add to that, how many millions are they spending on Lobbyist?

Obviously the people working for the companies are the ones caught in the middle. I don't think anybody is disputing that. What are the Unions willing to do to keep the plants open and the company out of bankruptcy? What is management willing to do to cut expenses, perks and bonuses?

Eddie
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #36  
When the IBEW came in to our company it did nothing but hurt us. CEO looked foward to new contracts, he could divide the membership by giving to this group and that group but not to this group. Smart man he could do math. This is a right to work state, no mandatory union membership, no strike clause, very weak union here. Finally voted it out, got better raises and bennefits. DO NOT whine about the 18-20 hour shifts, yes the money is good but you stay in the industry because you do not want to do anything else. There is something that happens to a man after the first time he gloves high voltage. Get to handle a heavy loaded line and feel your gloves rattle, **** it don't get no better than that.
NO WHINING HERE!I have been doing the 18-20 days in storms to long,its what is expected of lineman.Not a better job on earth IMHO.coobie
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #37  
This is total misdirection to take the focus away from the problem. Nobody is saying the problem is the quality of the vehicles being made.

The problem is that they cannot sell the vehicles that they make for a profit. Either they have to charge allot more, which means nobody is going to buy them, or they have to cut down on their expenses. When guys are making $55 an hour to assemble a car, you really have to wonder what they do to earn that kind of money? When management is making twice that much, you REALLY have to question what's going on with the way they spend their money. Add to that, how many millions are they spending on Lobbyist?

Obviously the people working for the companies are the ones caught in the middle. I don't think anybody is disputing that. What are the Unions willing to do to keep the plants open and the company out of bankruptcy? What is management willing to do to cut expenses, perks and bonuses?

Eddie

First of all they don't make $55/hr, you need to check your facts. The average wage of current UAW members is around $28/hr , Toyota is actually higher at $30/hr. Current new hires are at $12-14 because the union made some big concessions in the last contract. The difference is that the transplants don't have the legacy costs that the Big 3 have and the transplants have new modern factory's financed with public tax dollars. Reread the above and you will see it amounted to $253 million for the Mercedes plant.

Eddie where is your outrage for the high wages paid to workers in the financial community? In the book "The world is curved" by David Smick, he writes that the average wage of a Goldman Sachs employee in 2006 was $622,000 with some administrative assistants and secretaries making over $200,000.
 
   / UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!! #38  
Please abide by the rules that prohibit politics on Tractorbynet.

Thread closed.
 
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