TX2140 with FEL 80w Gear Oil or UTF hydraulic (Tx2160,g154,tx1500,tx1300)

[Dave Colantuoni]

I have an Iseki Tx2140 with manual gear box
and a FEL that shares the gear oil.

The Iseki manual says use 80w (or secret bolens oil)
I'm thinking UTF would be better.

I live in NH and tractor is used in very cold weather sometiens even 0F.
What are you guys using?



I recently loaded it with 90W (ford tarctor) oil fron TS
because the only 80W I could find was GL5
and I've heard GL5 it is a no no on old tractors.

The FEL is now slower than before.

Also The oils before and after the recent oil change
seems to be "foaming" on the dip stick,
And yes, I did get it all drained (3 places and FEL).

I don't think it is water in oil for two reason,
1) I've dropped it on hot surface and it does not sizzel
2) At sub zero temp it works fine.


BTW: I thinking of ordering this UTF thats specificly made for OLDER TRACTORS

Traveller® RENEW Tractor Fluid, 5 gal. - 8060038 | Tractor Supply Company


Dave

 

[NHmitch]

Hi dave, Hope you had a good 4th! I had also looked into the renew oil, and found that it is 10w20. I changed mine at the beginning of may, and I used 80w90 Gear Oil from Walmart. Walmart.com: Super Tech 80W-90 High Performance Gear Oil, 1 Gallon: Automotive It worked great, and I have not had any issues with it at all. I did a bunch of research on it, and I contacted a dealer who services these Iseki's, and he said that this oil would be appropriate for our area. It has worked well, and I used the 3 point on a few days that were right at freezing, before it warmed up. It was also the cheapest around, and it is the GL5 rated oil. It is rated for tractors, and offers a lot of protection, and it is pretty heavy duty.

 

[Dave Colantuoni]

Mitch,
Thanks for the update.
I'm sure the 80-90w is just fine with only a 3-point.
As a mater of fact, 80W is all I used on my old tx1300 (no FEL)
other than very slow lift/lower time on the drag blade at sub freezing temps
it was just fine. ( I added a magnetic heater to trans).

I'm more interested in what the guys with the FELs are using.
I put the 90w in and now my FEL is considerably slower (and it peek summertime).
Some were In the bowels of the owners manual it say with hydraulic attachment
use "Low viscosity" hydraulic fluid, see dealer.

BTW:
GL5 still scares me,
Besides the fact it has been reported to destroy brass/bronze bushing used in many old tractor.
It is not a hydraulic rated fluid.
Our hydraulic pumps are like $600.
GL5 is a standard for modern car transmissions and differentials.
These vehicles run at prolonged high speeds and as such high heat,
something our tractors never see.

UTF hydraulic/gear oils are designed specifically for tractors and other heavy equipment.
These fluids can't use the SAE viscosity rating because.....
Duhhh they are not SAE certified for your 2005 Mustang.
UTFs are however all equivalent to 80-90 gear oil.
UTFs all have anti foaming and other additives to help our hydraulic systems
work correctly and last longer.

When you read the labels on the all UTFs
they are list "certified" as replacement for every
tractor I can think of (except Iseki).

 

[NHmitch]

Dave, Thanks for all of the good information! I have also been concerned about the GL-5 rating, but I contacted supertech, and the stated, as well as on the label that it is anti-foam, and will not corrode brass, or copper. They said that they standard was changed for GL-5 because of the brass issues. I do think that the next time I change the hydraulic oil, I will use the Renew oil that you mentioned. That seems to be a very good oil for our older Iseki's, and since you can not really find straight 80 weight oil, unless you get mineral oil, then that is a good alternative. I agree that with the FEL you will want to also be a bit more careful. Since my 3point is only shared with the gears, and the PTO, I will wait until I do my next change, but thanks for the link! I also bought a 3 point Post Hole digger today, and it fit very well, except that it did not come with gear oil, so after I get more tomorrow, I'll let you how it works. I had to use the tractor today to move a huge tree that I dropped, unfortunately on my mail box, but at least it is down. I was able to pull huge sections of the log, and all of the branches I trimmed off. I use my tractor almost every day around the farm right now, and I have to get up early Sat Morning, and start working on fence posts, and gates for our pastures. Take care!

 

[Marcle]

Okay guy's, being the other side of the pond, some of your terms run over the top of my head, so what is UTF and GL5 please?

 

[NHmitch]

Hi,
GL-5 is a rating from the American Petroleum Institute. It is outlined here:

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has designated a grading system that classifies gear oils by their viscosity. Normally, oils are graded at one temperature (usually 100° C). Winter oils are also graded at -18° C. When the oil is graded at the lower temperature it is given the suffix “W” (i.e. 80W). Many oils are formulated to meet the requirements of more than one classification. Multi-grade oils are designated by two grade numbers such as 80W90. This number indicates the oils lowest and highest grading. While viscosity is important, the American Petroleum Institute (API) classification is critical in determining proper gear oil. The API has classified gear lubes (GL) into several categories based on applications, properties and additives. The classifications are GL-1, GL-2, GL-3, GL-4, GL-5 and GL-5* (GL-6 has been replaced by GL-5*). Vehicle and equipment manufacturers have specific gear oil requirements and viscosity grades. This information should be specified on the gear case or in the service manual.

UTF is universal transmission fluid. It is just another type of gear oil meant for transmissions. GL-5 ratings are usually given to 80w-90 gear oils. Basically the same as an SAE rating from what I can tell.

Okay guy's, being the other side of the pond, some of your terms run over the top of my head, so what is UTF and GL5 please?

 

[Marcle]

Thanks Mitch

 

[Dave Colantuoni]

Mitch is %100 correct.

SAE (Standard Automotive Engineering) Ratings are use in car/truck Automotive
and may not mean anything to off road heavy equpment or tractors.
But it is how a lot of gear oils are rated.

UTF (Universal Transmission Fluid) sometime (Universal Tractor Fluid) is basically
an uncontrolled name with no governing specification group.
BUT
All these UTF fluid do list themselves as compilable replacement
for most well know tractors. IE: everthing except ours.
All new tractor OEM still specify their own secrete blend.

Who care?

The issue is SAE 80-90W was not designed for hydraulics it was design for Gears (high speed cars).
It is know to foam up and case greif in common sump hydraulics
UTF is designed for hydraulics and "low speed" gears. As such it cannot carry a SAE rating.
What the big deal....
When our tractors were built they specified plan old SAE 80w (before any GL ratings existed).
Or some secrete factory OEM fluid.

FYI:
Common sump (manual shift gear box transmission , differential and FEL/Backhoe shared hydraulic)
on New Massey Fergusons made by Iseki use UTF.

Note: As Mitch said older GL-5 has an issue with brass (Yellow metal)
GL 1 to 3 did not have this problem
But this is no longer an issue as long as you get newer GL-5.

 

[NHmitch]

Dave, What do you think about using the 80 weight mineral oil that they sell at TSC? I know that is what they used in tractors about 50 years ago, but I am not sure if there are issues with it that would affect our machine? Thanks.

 

[Dave Colantuoni]

Mitch,
That's what I think I use except, But all my local TS store
had on the shelf was the 90W "Old Ford Tractor" gear oil.
Traveller® Ford Tractor All Mineral 90 Transmission Fluid, 2 gal. - 0806600 | Tractor Supply Company

At 95 degrees, I don't think there is much difference between 80 and 90.
Remember I used this to try and stop gap the grinding of the tyranny when shifting.
And it made no difference (see clutch repair).
But the FEl is noticeably slower then with what ever fluid was in it.

If your gona run other hydraulics or work in very cold.
I think the modern UTF is a better use fit.
UTF has anti-foam and other stuff for hydraulic.
But Anything will work.

BTW:
I've decide against the "RESTORE" for old tractors UTF and I'm going with Standard UTF
Here's my logic,
After reading about the "RESTORE" ability to "soften hard seal"
this scares me,
Sound like the old "trans-medic" and "motor-medic" oil additive.
You know the FIX-IT_IN-A-CAN stuff. These are all bad news.
These all do soften (AKA: dissolve) the seal.
My experience is they work fine but very soon cause more major problem.
I'm having no seal leeks so fix-it-in-a-can seal softener have no value to me.
And most likely will cause more harm than good

I'm going with basic UTF the cheepest I can from TS or Walmart.
one that list on the can that it Massey Ferguson, John Dear (Iseki clones) compliant.
My thinking is nothing in these basic manual shift tractor has really changed in 25 years.
If the newer tractor are using it it's probably the right product.

I've come to the conclusion
1) Used as gear oil, anything is OK.
2) Used as hydraulic fluid, why not use a modern blend.
something designed especially for shared hydrualic/gear systems.
3) The 3-pointy isn't hammers on like a FEL/Backhoe so any "Gear oil" OK with just 3pt.
If your running a FEL/Backhoe we should have a fluid listed as "hydraulic fluid" IE:UTF.

Dave