Turbocharging

[deerefan]

I just finished reading a series of articles in hot rod magazine regarding turbocharging the 5.3l gm motor and the 4.6l ford (PI). They pulled these motors out of the wrecking yards, tuned them up, added bigger injectors and slapped on a turbo and intercooler. Everything else in these motors was left stock. Both made well north of 550 hp and 500 ft/lb tourque. In an article in this past months issue, they took 2 leaf blowers, attached them to a stock 350 in a 80's model corvette and made 25 more hp on the top end and 50 more down low for less than $200. Of course, these articles got my brain brewing. I currently own a 97 F150 with the 4.6 (a non PI motor, makes only 215hp versus 260) and am toying with the notion of doing this when I retire the truck to see if it helps with not only power but economy. It also made me wonder why waste twin turbos on a V6 when you can slap 1 on a V8 and make even more power and tourqe and not work the engine as hard as you would the V6. I have long given up serious drag racing simply because it got too expensive and I could not keep up with the turbo cars. It seems turbocharging is going to be a mainstay power adder as fuel prices continue to rise. If you get a chance, read these articles. It is amazing what you can get out of a stock motor.

 

[sparrowhawk]

The best part of turbocharging is it can be used to produce better economy or performance. It's all in the tuning and total engine design.

 

[Diamondpilot]

550HP is impressive but where at and what torque does it make? The new Ford TT V6 which I am sure inspired this article, makes all its power below 2500 rpm. Thats where you want it on a truck, not on the top end.

I could care less if it makes 550HP at 6,000 rpms. Now if it made 400HP of the 550HP total at 2500 rpm that would be something but remember it still has to have torque to back it up. This is where the diesel engine has shined for so many years. They make big power down low.

How about longevity? The new motor Ford has was designed from the get go to be turbo charged.

Chris

 

[deerefan]

550HP is impressive but where at and what torque does it make? The new Ford TT V6 which I am sure inspired this article, makes all its power below 2500 rpm. Thats where you want it on a truck, not on the top end.

I could care less if it makes 550HP at 6,000 rpms. Now if it made 400HP of the 550HP total at 2500 rpm that would be something but remember it still has to have torque to back it up. This is where the diesel engine has shined for so many years. They make big power down low.

How about longevity? The new motor Ford has was designed from the get go to be turbo charged.

Chris

The actual inspiration for the article was budget horsepower, mostly tuned for top end drag racing applications. With the proper tuning, it can be made for low end much like the TT V6. These motors were junk yard motors, not really designed for this but just to prove a point. With the proper build (teflon coated pistons, forged crank, 6 bolt mains) these mtors would be rather stout and probably have great longevity. I will look at the article again tonight and see where the most power was made and report back.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The actual inspiration for the article was budget horsepower, mostly tuned for top end drag racing applications. With the proper tuning, it can be made for low end much like the TT V6. These motors were junk yard motors, not really designed for this but just to prove a point. With the proper build (teflon coated pistons, forged crank, 6 bolt mains) these mtors would be rather stout and probably have great longevity. I will look at the article again tonight and see where the most power was made and report back.

My mechanic has a Lincoln Mark VIII with the 4.6 that he picked up 10 years ago with 100,000 miles on it for $5500. If you are not familiar with these cars they had the 32V 4.6 that the Mustang had and were built on the same platform the Mercury Cougar and Ford T-Bird was at the time.

We swapped the gear set from 3.73 or 3.55, can not remember now, to 4.10's. Put a larger fuel pump on it, better injectors, a Super Charger, 100 shot of Nitrous, under drive pulleys, and a custom tune to the computer. He has about $8,500 in the car and it will run in the 12's all day long. He has had it in the 11's.

Gets a lot of attention at the strip. Can run down most any other street legal ride out there. He has not driven it in a few years now, leaking oil pan. It has 160,000 miles on it and never had the tranny or motor opened up. Not even the valve covers off.

I have only had to bring it home from the strip once on my trailer when he broke a lower ball joint. Now it just sits in my Airplane Hanger collecting dust. He has won well over 75 trophy's with it bracket racing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Mark_VIII

Chris

 

[timswi]

My mechanic has a Lincoln Mark VIII with the 4.6 that he picked up 10 years ago with 100,000 miles on it for $5500. If you are not familiar with these cars they had the 32V 4.6 that the Mustang had and were built on the same platform the Mercury Cougar and Ford T-Bird was at the time.

We swapped the gear set from 3.73 or 3.55, can not remember now, to 4.10's. Put a larger fuel pump on it, better injectors, a Super Charger, 100 shot of Nitrous, under drive pulleys, and a custom tune to the computer. He has about $8,500 in the car and it will run in the 12's all day long. He has had it in the 11's.Gets a lot of attention at the strip. Can run down most any other street legal ride out there. He has not driven it in a few years now, leaking oil pan. It has 160,000 miles on it and never had the tranny or motor opened up. Not even the valve covers off.

I have only had to bring it home from the strip once on my trailer when he broke a lower ball joint. Now it just sits in my Airplane Hanger collecting dust. He has won well over 75 trophy's with it bracket racing.

Lincoln Mark VIII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chris

Still trying to digest this one as a recovering drag racer. A 550HP Z06 will barely make 13's. Not saying it didn't happen, but.....

 

[CLinton_in_FL]

It is called, he knows how to drive and can hook up

 

[timswi]

It is called, he knows how to drive and can hook up

I could do both with a 396 with 4:10's and barely made 13. Friends with semi-pro built cars were getting into the high 10's adn 11's with 20K pro built motors and slicks...Just sayin.

There was a reference before to a 12 second Aviator too.

A Z06 wil hook perfectly too...It'll never see 11 without 20K in add-ons. The Z06 numbers are professional, not weekenders.

Not saying it didn't happen..but...

 

[Diamondpilot]

Still trying to digest this one as a recovering drag racer. A 550HP Z06 will barely make 13's. Not saying it didn't happen, but.....

I ran 14.1 in my 04 F-250 and my neighbors brother ran 13.9 in a 05 2500 Dmax. We both had mild chips and intakes with 4" exhaust. Maybe a extra 175HP to the rear wheels. My truck was 7,500# and his was just a tad shy of 7,000#.

Not sure who was driving that Z06 but it should do much better than that.

He ran DOT legal slicks on the rear. Just a grove down the middle if I remember right and had it stripped of interior panels, passenger seat, rear seat, ect.

Dont get me wrong, this car is the exception. I know guys who have nearly 40K in a Malibu Wagon and another with a Mustang with even more time and money in whom he beat all the time. We always got a kick out of watching some doctor show up in a new Vette or whatever and he would eat there lunch.

Same can be said for the Honda Civic crowed, ect. You can pick them up all day long for $3000. Build the clutch up, put a $5000 motor in it and if you can get the CV joints to hold together you can put down some serious times for about $7500 to $10,000.

Chris

 

[timswi]

I ran 14.1 in my 04 F-250 and my neighbors brother ran 13.9 in a 05 2500 Dmax. We both had mild chips and intakes with 4" exhaust. Maybe a extra 175HP to the rear wheels. My truck was 7,500# and his was just a tad shy of 7,000#.

Not sure who was driving that Z06 but it should do much better than that.

He ran DOT legal slicks on the rear. Just a grove down the middle if I remember right and had it stripped of interior panels, passenger seat, rear seat, ect.

Dont get me wrong, this car is the exception. I know guys who have nearly 40K in a Malibu Wagon and another with a Mustang with even more time and money in whom he beat all the time. We always got a kick out of watching some doctor show up in a new Vette or whatever and he would eat there lunch.

Same can be said for the Honda Civic crowed, ect. You can pick them up all day long for $3000. Build the clutch up, put a $5000 motor in it and if you can get the CV joints to hold together you can put down some serious times for about $7500 to $10,000.

Chris

I've seen 13 sec Civics....Can't get past the fart in the bathtub sound. There's still nothing like the sound of a V8...I'll stay slower and louder .

 

[Raspy]

I can't see how you can turbo a stock engine and get it to run on pump gas. Diesels are a perfect match for turbos, but gas engines? The kind of performance mentioned here seems like it would need aviation gas at least. How do you stop the detonation at boost pressures?

 

[CLinton_in_FL]

I could do both with a 396 with 4:10's and barely made 13. Friends with semi-pro built cars were getting into the high 10's adn 11's with 20K pro built motors and slicks...Just sayin.

There was a reference before to a 12 second Aviator too.

A Z06 wil hook perfectly too...It'll never see 11 without 20K in add-ons. The Z06 numbers are professional, not weekenders.

Not saying it didn't happen..but...

Well I will give you this, I dont know how the sea level affects the times, but if you had that set up, you were not making the power or rather torque to get you moving.

 

[tcartwri]

I can't see how you can turbo a stock engine and get it to run on pump gas. Diesels are a perfect match for turbos, but gas engines? The kind of performance mentioned here seems like it would need aviation gas at least. How do you stop the detonation at boost pressures?

It's all about keeping the intake charge temperatures down. Modern turbo systems, and superchargers, put almost no extra heat into the intake. They are also comparitively easy on the bottem end parts because the loads in a boosted engine are compressive rather than the tensive loads you get from spinning a high horsepower naturally aspirated motor. In fact it's usually the block that fails before the rods and crank in a turbo motor.

 

[deerefan]

I have posted the power chart for you guys to review. Peak horsepower comes on about 600 rpm later than naturally aspirated, but peak torque comes on at roughly the same rpm as naturally aspirated. This article also cleared up for me why the 4.6 and 5.4 were not the greatest for towing, seeing their peak power numbers do not arrive until well north of 4000 rpms. These tests were run with 100 octane race fuel, but does state 93 octane is definitely safe. They kept the air fuel ratio around 11.8:1 and timing values below 20 degrees, all done in keeping the motor intact. The only non factory pieces were associated with the fuel system, as the stock system would not cut it. They replaced the injectors (19lb stock) and went to 39lb/hr injectors. Also, they used a FAST XFI/XIM system over the stock ECU for ease of testing but stated the stock ECU can be programmed to work. They bolted on a set of Kooks long tubes to be compatible with the turbo. The motor stock (from the junk yard) made 296hp at 4900 and 343 lb-ft at 4100. As turbos become more prevalent, articles like this are grabbing attention. If they can get 400+ hp and torque from a little 3.5 V6, just think what is possible with more cylinders and cubes. Maybe 500+ with over 22 mpg in a fullsize truck?

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is the main reason I think Ford is in such a good position right now. The development of the 3.5L TT is putting them so far ahead of everyone else right now. 400HP in stock form is going to be a reality, 500HP, not so much. But with rising fuel prices who knows. Whenever a new motor is introduced by any manufacture its de-tuned.

There is no secret to this article and its timing. Its what has been know for a long time. They are now just showing how its possible to take your existing truck and modify it with a simple bolt on turbo and get power above and beyond what the factory has with its new offerings.

As for the 4.6 and 5.4 motors. The claim to fame on these motors was that it made something like 80% of the available torque below 2000 rpm giving them respectable low end torque. Remember, these motors are nearly 20 years old now, basically the first multi port truck motors. Yes, they leave a lot to be desired but so did the 350. I think history will show they have done the job respectably just like a 350 and and if it were not for the spark plug issue been a trouble free line of motors if taken care of for many many miles.

Chris

 

[dodge man]

I can see that Linclon getting in the 12's really easy. I haven't had my Challenger down the 1/4 mile yet, but I've heard of guys getting in the low 13's, high 12's with just simple bolt ons, making in the high 300's hp at the rear wheels. Guys with bolt on superchargers are getting in the 11's pretty easy.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I can see that Linclon getting in the 12's really easy. I haven't had my Challenger down the 1/4 mile yet, but I've heard of guys getting in the low 13's, high 12's with just simple bolt ons, making in the high 300's hp at the rear wheels. Guys with bolt on superchargers are getting in the 11's pretty easy.

Yes, it does not take a lot of money to go fast. I watch that show Pinks all the time. There are tons of guys on there with F body Mustangs, early 90's Cameros, and small trucks like S-10's who are crazy fast with just a few thousand dollars of bolt on's to a factory setup.



Chris

 

[deerefan]

This is the main reason I think Ford is in such a good position right now. The development of the 3.5L TT is putting them so far ahead of everyone else right now. 400HP in stock form is going to be a reality, 500HP, not so much. But with rising fuel prices who knows. Whenever a new motor is introduced by any manufacture its de-tuned.

There is no secret to this article and its timing. Its what has been know for a long time. They are now just showing how its possible to take your existing truck and modify it with a simple bolt on turbo and get power above and beyond what the factory has with its new offerings.

As for the 4.6 and 5.4 motors. The claim to fame on these motors was that it made something like 80% of the available torque below 2000 rpm giving them respectable low end torque. Remember, these motors are nearly 20 years old now, basically the first multi port truck motors. Yes, they leave a lot to be desired but so did the 350. I think history will show they have done the job respectably just like a 350 and and if it were not for the spark plug issue been a trouble free line of motors if taken care of for many many miles.

Chris

Ford is taking a tremendous gamble and I hope it works out. Now that we have seen what power can be obtained, let's see if the rest of the drivetrain can handle it. After looking at the chart, you are correct as 80% of the power on the motor they tested was prevalent @ 2000 rpm. I hate how hard those motors were to work on. I guess I could say the 4.6 in my 97 was ok. It disappointed me at 135k miles I had to replace the motor due to a cracked cylinder head. The new motor has been fine so far. The 4.6 just feels a little gutless. I cannot critique the 5.4 as I have never owned one.

 

[tshep]

Wow - where is this going?

It seemed to start with electrically powered 'turbo charging'.

I looked into that real hard a few years ago, and if I remember right...
pressure was a function (square?) of speed, and at the required volumes, regular, inexpensive electric motors just didn't turn fast enough to get into the really fat part of the curve for engine volumes.(And thus they needed 2!) So rule out belts (even slower) and electric motors - that free exhaust flow is the only way to go for spindle speed.
I'll also bet those leaf blower motors were on stationary dyno's - with 120V circuits ON SHORT CORDS.

Despite how cool 'supercharged' looks in the sales brochure - turbocharging is the most cost effective, homebrew pressure mod - especially since sourcing and rebuilding have become routine in the last 30 years since the Buicks.

 

[timswi]

Wow - where is this going?

It seemed to start with electrically powered 'turbo charging'.

I looked into that real hard a few years ago, and if I remember right...
pressure was a function (square?) of speed, and at the required volumes, regular, inexpensive electric motors just didn't turn fast enough to get into the really fat part of the curve for engine volumes.(And thus they needed 2!) So rule out belts (even slower) and electric motors - that free exhaust flow is the only way to go for spindle speed.
I'll also bet those leaf blower motors were on stationary dyno's - with 120V circuits ON SHORT CORDS.

Despite how cool 'supercharged' looks in the sales brochure - turbocharging is the most cost effective, homebrew pressure mod - especially since sourcing and rebuilding have become routine in the last 30 years since the Buicks.

Ah the GNX...That was a cool car...A real sleeper in it's day...Love to find a good one now.