Trenching a French Drain. how to stay afloat?

[dave1949]

I have crossed some wet areas by digging the trench with my backhoe attachment and piling the dirt in a track wider than the tractor ahead of the direction I wanted to go. If it is dry enough to drive on without getting stuck, I keep going. If it is too wet, I leave it to dry out enough to drive on and then resume.

You may have to do it in stages like that with a wheeled tractor. Once you get the swale dug out, it should work to dry out the area in general, which would allow you to go back in and remove the dirt you piled up to drive on. If it does not dry up the area, you need a Plan B . It takes a long time for a pile of saturated dirt to dry out, especially if it has grass and weeds in it. Patience is needed.

A tracked excavator of decent size can deal with some amazing mud if there is firmer dirt up to 24-30 inches below the surface muck. That can often be the case.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Unless the soil is really boggy I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just pull yourself into where you want to be with the backhoe and start digging. As you dig your trench just push yourself back out. Setting the fel bucket slightly up and at the same level as the front tires helps to skid your way out. At the back setting your stabilizers at roughly the same level as the bottom of the rear tires keeps you from sinking too deep.

I did this once to dig a trench through about a foot of water and cattails with a Case 580. I couldn't push myself back up onto the 4 foot high road so I turned the tractor and pushed my self out across the cattails to a dry spot. It actually worked very well.

 

[dougtrr2]

If I understand correctly you have a stream that is feeding the pond. It crosses your driveway and spreads out to a swamp as it does so. Some elevation questions are in order. How much drop from the creek to the pond? Could you just put in a culvert and they build some sort of berm to force the water to the culvert? Not to throw a wrench in the plans, but have you checked to make sure the area isn't considered a wetlands? That could open up another can of worms.

When I was a kid the pasture next to us was a swamp. It stayed that way until the city put in about 200 yards of 3' concrete culvert.

Doug in SW IA

 

[dave1949]

That's a good point about wetlands. They are environmentally important to have.

I dried out about an acre near our house site, part of which became a pond, but I also created similar wetlands in other locations to compensate for that loss. It is a far from perfect compromise, but I try to pay attention to such things.

 

[almaryholm]

I built a BRIDGE/ CULVERT across a large wet spot on a trail ( hiking/skiing) at a state park by using old used concrete blocks laid opening to opening across area so water could drain and covered with a layer of dirt ( could drive vehicles over it with no problem sinking or breaking blocks)

 

[bigdeano]

It may not be possible in your area, but it's easy to blow a ditch thru deep mud with dynamite. I helped do it once many years ago.The charges are placed a foot apart. You only need a blasting cap in one piece of dynamite. It was great fun too for a teenager. You'd have to hire someone with a blasting license. We didn't need one back in '63.

 

[muddstopper]

Unless the soil is really boggy I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just pull yourself into where you want to be with the backhoe and start digging. As you dig your trench just push yourself back out. Setting the fel bucket slightly up and at the same level as the front tires helps to skid your way out. At the back setting your stabilizers at roughly the same level as the bottom of the rear tires keeps you from sinking too deep.

I did this once to dig a trench through about a foot of water and cattails with a Case 580. I couldn't push myself back up onto the 4 foot high road so I turned the tractor and pushed my self out across the cattails to a dry spot. It actually worked very well.

Dug a pond using this method once. It helps to lay a couple of boards, (2x6's) lengthwise under the bucket so it has something to scoot across while your pushing with the backhoe.

 

[Tony H]

Long before I was 'in the picture', The stream ran North to South in this area. Someone rerouted it to head west to east on the North side of the property so they can build the Pond on the south side. in this area and made a Pond . As nature has it, it's not happy with this, so it bleeds through the berm and heads South.
Basically, I want to put it back the way it was and dry out the area for my driveway in the process.
So I'm running a trench from South to North, adding a 12" culvert where the driveway will be. Whether I do not touch this or make this modification, The water will end up in the same spot a little farther South East on my property. Since the man-made modification made this wet area, I am not looking at it as a Wetland issue. I'm not asking and causing a ruckus but I do not see it having any impact on nature around it. We are talking a 100' x 100' area that I will basically be restoring back to it natural flow. All the old county maps show the stream running through where my pond is now.. So I feel no hard, no foul.
I was up to the property yesterday, I Sickle Mowed the Path I will take from the Pond to the stream. This time of year I feel it is dry enough to get away with it. I have some 2 x 10 and may chunks of 2 x 4 along with two sections of steel roofing. I think I will be OK. The only straddling of the trench will be when I drive up to where I already laid the Culvert. I did that last winter on frozen ground BEFORE I realized that the ground was that wet. . found out as water starting seeping into the hole as I dug for the culvert.
I guess with a backhoe it's tough to get real stuck since you do have the Loader and the outriggers to lift you, as PMSMECHANIC mentioned but kind of new to getting into trouble with the machine. Haven't had an OH SH*T moment yet. So far the work has been straight forward.

 

[EddieWalker]

Be careful of some of the ideas given for working in soft conditions. Most of what I just read will just be a waist of money and time. You need to have something down that will spread the load of your tires while digging. Driving over it is one thing, but digging is a whole different animal!!!!!

The pros use mats built from 6x6's that are attached together to form 12x12 decks. This will support the weight of your tractor and the pressure of your backhoe digging into the ground. It takes quite a few of these to get anywhere, and the cost is pretty high for all the lumber and bolts to hold it together.

Loggers use trees and branches to build up a pad that will carry the weight, but it's a mess and probably more work then it's worth to clean it up when you are done.

I've had some success with 3/4 plywood, but it's ruined when I'm done and the cost is significant.

If you go with 2x material, be sure to connect it to each other to form a deck of some kind. If you just lay out the boards, they will sink, break or move out of the way on you.

If it's not possible to get to where you want to be, can you do it in winter when the ground is frozen?

Can you lower the water level by temporarily draining the pond or damming up the creek?

Why does the title of this thread say French drain? They are almost always useless and at best, a temporary fix to standing water issues. For big areas and large quantities of water, you either need big pipes, or wide open ditches. There is no such thing as quick, cheap or easy when dealing with water.

Eddie

 

[sparc]

You could build some mats out of pressure treated 2x stock. make them 3 layers thick and alternate the direction of the boards in each layer. Use 2x8s 0r 2x10s and make them a minimum of 24" square and place these under your outriggers when digging.

You could make some additional mats for traveling across mucky areas out of 6x6 PT stock 8 foot long. Drill through 6 inches from each and about every 18" in between for 1/2 (or heavier) all-thread and use a couple heavy washers or some 2x2" fish plates on each end. Double nut and countersink the nuts in the outboard timbers. Make them 5 or 6 units wide. Add some means of lifting use the backhoe and a couple chains. They will be heavy especially after they soak up some water. Make at least 4 mats. Not cheap but more fun than getting stuck.

You could also wait for winter when the ground will be firmer, that might help your situation too.