Transmission/hydraulic fluid alternative to Permatran III

def38 · Mar 23, 2018

I am using Wal-Mart Supertech tractor oil in my M-F 231S. It meets Permatran III spec. Cost me about $40.00 per 5 gal pail. Remember, M-F doesn't blend oils. I don't know who makes the Permatran III oil but the selling dealer likely makes a large profit on the stuff. The Wal-Mart oil is working just fine for me and keeps the transmission and hydraulics very clean and cool. I also use Supertech motor oils in some of my stuff. Go to BITOG for oil info...

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def38 · Mar 23, 2018

rnh1 said:
I just bought a 135. The hydraulic fluid appeared to be new. After 15 hours it is turning yellow. I keep tractor covered it doesn't look like its water in the fluid what's up?

The color change may be from air getting entrained in the oil. After the machine sits for a day or two, most oils will give up their air bubbles and the fluid returns to clear. I find my fluid changes color slightly from time to time due to air. It is clear the following day when I check it.

You may have an overfill of the reservoir.

AxleHub · Apr 5, 2018

def38 said:
I am using Wal-Mart Supertech tractor oil in my M-F 231S. It meets Permatran III spec. Cost me about $40.00 per 5 gal pail. Remember, M-F doesn't blend oils. I don't know who makes the Permatran III oil but the selling dealer likely makes a large profit on the stuff. The Wal-Mart oil is working just fine for me and keeps the transmission and hydraulics very clean and cool. I also use Supertech motor oils in some of my stuff. Go to BITOG for oil info...

Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site

You'll find anything about oils you'll ever need to know there.

Def,

Permatran 821 XL Hydraulic/Transmission fluid has been a blended synthetic since 1 year ago - and now there is yet another new formula besides the blended synthetic - it is called "Extended Synthetic". It is considerably lower priced than Kubota UDT yet carries the same high quality capabilities. In my tractor I use a Mobil Delvac Diesel engine oil full synthetic 5w-40 and after rebate on sale it runs $10 a gallon or less.

def38 · Apr 5, 2018

AxleHub said:
Def,

Permatran 821 XL Hydraulic/Transmission fluid has been a blended synthetic since 1 year ago - and now there is yet another new formula besides the blended synthetic - it is called "Extended Synthetic". It is considerably lower priced than Kubota UDT yet carries the same high quality capabilities. In my tractor I use a Mobil Delvac Diesel engine oil full synthetic 5w-40 and after rebate on sale it runs $10 a gallon or less.

Mobil Delvac is excellent HDEO. I choose to use the non-synthetic Delvac 1300 for the time being until I understand my Perkins engine's oil diet. I may change to synthetics thereafter. Up there in the land of brats and cheese, the synthetic has pour point advantages during winter months which I don't need here in Dixieland. I may see you at Wilson's Ice Cream Shop in Ephriam, WI later this summer...or maybe the motorcycle races at Road America (most of those two wheel boys use Motul). Go Packers.

pcwolf · Apr 15, 2018

I am not sure what I am reading here but this is what AGCO says about Permatran 821XL in their Lubricants Guide:

"AGCO Permatran 821XL Transmission & Hydraulic Oil is specially formulated with the finest quality, hydrotreated, high-viscosity index, paraffinic base oils and the most advanced and rigorously-tested additive system to deliver above and beyond protection and performance. Group II base stocks provide the added benefits of improved thermal and oxidation performance and low temperature properties."

If there is any synthetic base to it, it must be hidden in the words somewhere that confuses me.

Here is the list of AGCO technical specifications:
(IDENTICAL, by the way, for both AGCO Permatran 821XL and Massey Ferguson Permatran III referenced in that guide)

Specifications Description
SAE Viscosity Grade = 10W-30
API Service Category = GL-4
API Gravity = 28.5
Viscosity, cSt (centistokes),
@ 40 C = 57.6
@ 100 C =9.23
Viscosity Index, min = 141
Flash Point, COC, min = 207 F / 224 C
Pour Point = -30 F / -33 C

And here are the specifications provided by Shell for Rotella:

"Specifications, Approvals, and Recommendations. Although it may differ from manufacturers recommended fluids, Shell ROTELLA HD Tractor Fluid is suitable for use in all of the following applications.
AGCO (Deutz-Allis) Powerfluid 821XL, PF821
Massey Ferguson M1110, 1127A/B, 1129A, 1135, M1141 (Permatran III) "

Typical Physical Characteristics
SAE = 10W-30
API Service Category = GL-4
Gravity, API = 28.1
Viscosity:
@ 40C, cSt = 65.2
@ 100C, cSt = 10.2
Viscosity Index = 142
Flash Point, C (F) = 220 (420)
Pour Point, C (F) = -42 (-44)
These characteristics are typical of current production. While future production will conform to Shell specifications, variation in these characteristics may occur."

Good enough for me. I just got a GC2310 this week, and have not yet priced Permatran III at the dealership. Today I went in search at AutoZone after my closest TSC was sold out, and saw that their house brand generic hydro fluid was over $50. My next closest Tractor Supply has five gallon pails of Rotella HD on the shelf for $44 after a $5 discount, price good until July 2018. Attached is a $10 Shell Rebate on the Rotella HD. Which makes a final cost of $34, a very good deal in my eyes.

-Phil

mapper · Apr 15, 2018

When I prepared for the 50 hrs service on my 1734e my MF dealer told me that any high quality hydraulic oil that met or exceeded the specifications of permatran 3 would be fine. I ended up with oil from my local NAPA store and have had zero issues with it. I will most likely be doing the second scheduled service in a few months and will be shopping around for the best price again.
Now if I could just find a cross reference for the filters......