Train - hazardous cargo "accident"

/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#261  
On the cover of the Globe today:

Railways told to create emergency plans for crude oil shipments - The Globe and Mail

Beginning of the article:

The federal government will require railways to create detailed emergency plans for all shipments of crude oil and phase out the use of older-model DOT-111 rail cars to carry crude within three years in response to the explosion in Lac-Megantic, Que.

The changes, part of a package of policy reforms announced by Transport Minister Lisa Raitt on Wednesday, respond to three key recommendations by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, which is investigating the Lac-Megantic derailment.


It's a start...

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#263  
The Star did a field experiment, concerning information "security" issues:

Toxic chemicals, crude oil, radioactive material ride the rails through Toronto | Toronto Star

The beginning of the article:

The rail industry and federal regulators insist the public can't know what dangerous goods are shipped through their backyards, citing "security concerns." But it's alarmingly easy to find out.

Trains trundling through the heart of Toronto are carrying millions of litres of crude oil along with radioactive material, explosives and some of the most toxic chemicals on earth.

The railroad industry and the federal government have long kept secret what dangerous goods are transported through municipalities, citing fears for security should the public know what is riding the rails past their homes.

But it's easy to find out.


Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#264  
Double post, second one removed....

Rgds, D.
 
Last edited:
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #265  
The railroad industry and the federal government have long kept secret what dangerous goods are transported through municipalities, citing fears for security should the public know what is riding the rails past their homes.

But it's easy to find out.[/I]

Not very secret. Read the placard number, then look it up here (link below) or many other places.

stock-photo-closeup-of-railroad-ethanol-tank-car-22475539.jpg

Search for Placards by UN Number

1987 is alcohol.

Bruce
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#266  
Not very secret. Read the placard number, then look it up here (link below) or many other places.

View attachment 373080

Search for Placards by UN Number

1987 is alcohol.

Bruce

Agreed.... anybody remotely familiar with rail, EMS, or transportation in general knows. Even a semi-intelligent "bad guy" would have figured it out the first month the system was in place.... the slower ones, 3-4 months max.

I'm glad to see the Star doing this, as it helps fight the govt strategy of obfuscation and denial of information access. AKA Security Policy.

Everybody who has been involved with Rail knows how high the risks are. We need articles like this Star one to raise public awareness...... hopefully creating enough critical mass of publlic pressure to sustain meaningful oversight and enforcement of new rail safety regulations....

Fingers crossed....

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#268  
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #269  
I have read through alot of these post concerning train accidents, and I will start off by saying that I am a certified locomotive engineer with a RR and there are safety features in place to prevent runaways. If any of the cars, or locomotives had come apart anywhere it would have put the train into emergency and all brakes would have locked up. The only way for a cut of cars or locomotives to runaway is if there is no air at all on the system. When leaving a train unattended you always apply a full brake pipe reduction and set hand brakes on all locomotives and enough on the cars to hold train in place, you never shutdown all locomotives in a consist, you leave at least one running to keep air on the entire system. With all that being said,and without going into details..... there are ways to cut cars from a train and have them roll away without affecting the rest of the train. I am not saying this is what happened because I don't know, but even with all the safety features intact,all it takes is someone playing around on cars or locomotives to cause an accident. I have come across people, a lot of them kids, playing on cars setting in a siding, usually don't have to much trouble when you let people know that it is federal trespass violation. :shocked:
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#270  
I have read through alot of these post concerning train accidents, and I will start off by saying that I am a certified locomotive engineer with a RR and there are safety features in place to prevent runaways. If any of the cars, or locomotives had come apart anywhere it would have put the train into emergency and all brakes would have locked up. The only way for a cut of cars or locomotives to runaway is if there is no air at all on the system. When leaving a train unattended you always apply a full brake pipe reduction and set hand brakes on all locomotives and enough on the cars to hold train in place, you never shutdown all locomotives in a consist, you leave at least one running to keep air on the entire system. With all that being said,and without going into details..... there are ways to cut cars from a train and have them roll away without affecting the rest of the train. I am not saying this is what happened because I don't know, but even with all the safety features intact,all it takes is someone playing around on cars or locomotives to cause an accident. I have come across people, a lot of them kids, playing on cars setting in a siding, usually don't have to much trouble when you let people know that it is federal trespass violation. :shocked:

It sounds like maintenance with MMA was lax enough that fires were common on those locomotives. If I recall correctly, the FD that responded shut down the locomotive, following their standard protocol for dealing with engine fires - as a layman, that makes sense to me - if I was fighting a fire, I'd want whatever is pumping fuel shut the ______ OFF. If the protocols aren't clear (between what the RRs want to happen, and what the FDs need, to protect their people), then better practices need to be hammered out ASAP.

I was amazed to learn a few things, following this account.

1) Unlike OTR trucks, train brakes are not fail-safe.

2) How lax the federal laws are concerning trains (speaking of Canada specifically), and how little real enforcement of exisiting laws is performed.

3) That something like the minimum # of parking brakes to be set is discretionary.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the skilled engineers who do pilot these massive trains safely every day. Once they are properly trained and have enough operating hours under their belt, then obviously the Rule of Thumb they follow works, most of the time.

As many people have posted here, the fly-by-night RRs do NOT want their employees to spend time setting and releasing brakes. BIG problem, obviously - see # 2 above.

With all the technology we have around today, there is no excuse for not having a computer program in every locomotive that calculates the minimum # of brakes to be set, based on local conditions. The physics calculations involved (train mass, grade slope) are something any 2nd year university Engineering student should be capable of handling.

I'd expect most if not all train stations or yards to be fairly level. Where I can see a problem coming up is if a train has to park in an unplanned area - if the grade slope is extreme, the # of parking brakes may be underestimated when you are relying just on seat-of-the-pants feelings.

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #271  
Back in the 80's, it was reported that nuclear missiles with warheads were going to be transported by rail through our small town. (How that information leaked out was a mystery to me) however I don't remember hearing one person complain. The common theme I remember hearing about the event was that "we need these". Some people wanted to know when they are coming through so they could go show support of our nations defensive system.

Well, the times are a changing. There is a growing public sentiment concerning vital materials needed to fuel and power our nation as "planet killers". Rail ways, pipelines and water transportation (shipping) are being targeted as "problems".

I am not going to argue specific areas of the "planet killers or problems". I'm just pointing out there are lots of "we can't do this" public sentiment and not a lot of "let's figure this out" sentiment.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#272  
Back in the 80's, it was reported that nuclear missiles with warheads were going to be transported by rail through our small town. (How that information leaked out was a mystery to me) however I don't remember hearing one person complain. The common theme I remember hearing about the event was that "we need these". Some people wanted to know when they are coming through so they could go show support of our nations defensive system.

Well, the times are a changing. There is a growing public sentiment concerning vital materials needed to fuel and power our nation as "planet killers". Rail ways, pipelines and water transportation (shipping) are being targeted as "problems".

I am not going to argue specific areas of the "planet killers or problems". I'm just pointing out there are lots of "we can't do this" public sentiment and not a lot of "let's figure this out" sentiment.

That kind of social cohesion (re. warheads) is often replaced with NIMBY and BANANA blind reactionary responses today... agreed - not too productive.

I put my self in the Figure It Out, and Get it Done camp. Where the NIMBY pressure can be of some use shows in the recent Canadian legislation that finally got moving, towards improving rail safety. It seems pretty clear that the Feds here were not enforcing the old rail legislation effectively, and if Lac Megantic had not happened, would have been content to let Big Rail keep conducting Business As Usual.

Still today, I myself will take a few calculated risks, when Getting Things Done. Personally, and as a society, you can't mitigate all risks down to zero, all the time, and still function.

There are companies at both ends of that rail line that are making big money off that oil moving through small and large cities. It's high time that some of those billions in profit get spent on safety upgrades..... We aren't going to get off Oil in my lifetime, so it's time to get smarter about how oil is going to move.

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #273  
ON the news yesterday. 5/10/14
Another train carrying crude oil derailed & spilled 75,000 gallons of crude. I think this train was in motion. News did say none of the crude got into any water ways.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#274  
ON the news yesterday. 5/10/14
Another train carrying crude oil derailed & spilled 75,000 gallons of crude. I think this train was in motion. News did say none of the crude got into any water ways.

In many parts of Canada, there aren't may places where you could have a spill that size, and miss water. That was a lucky break.

A high speed crash can probably break just about anything.... I wonder if those tank cars were the old style ones, or the newer upgraded ones ?

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#275  
Times like this, I'd like to see the official responsible for the Must-Rehire decision being held personally liable for the consequences....

CPR warns of another Lac Megantic if forced to rehire coke-abusing engineer | Ca

Canadian Pacific Railway is evoking the possibility of another Lac Megantic-like disaster if it is forced to rehire a dishonest, drug-abusing locomotive engineer the company sacked in 2013 after he derailed a train while using cocaine on the job.

The engineer, who has had a history of absenteeism and a gambling addiction, tested positive for cocaine use after he derailed a train in a CPR Montreal yard in 2012, court documents state.

Because the 45-year-old man initially and repeatedly denied using cocaine, the company's lawsuit also cites his "dishonesty and deception" as a reason they don't want him back.

The Teamsters Canada Rail Conference union grieved his termination, calling it "excessive."

Quebec railway labour arbitrator Michel Picher last month ordered CPR to rehire the engineer, a move that stunned the company's senior management.

Picher ruled the locomotive engineer's long-time cocaine addiction -- the man now admits using since 1987 -- was a "disability" for which he had sought treatment and is now doing well. Thus, he deserves another chance, Picher ruled.

A furious CPR has filed court documents in Montreal to overturn the labour arbitrator's ruling, which the railway's lawyers called "manifestly unreasonable and unintelligible."

CPR lawyers note Canadian railways are obliged by federal law to carry hazardous goods, such as ammonia, chlorine and petroleum crude oil in tanker cars.

Because those obligations impose massive risks and liabilities on railways, they must also be free to terminate untrustworthy employees who flout safety rules, CPR lawyers added.

"The lives and safety of CPR's employees and the public at large are at stake ... CPR holds all its employees, including its locomotive engineers, to the highest safety standards," the company's lawsuit states.

"As the Lac Megantic derailment has recently shown, the failure of a locomotive engineer to follow safety guidelines and rules can lead to tragic and catastrophic circumstances."


Let nobody ever question whether or not..... The Inmates are running the Asylum !

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #276  
and here we go again,
i guess human life, water, wildlife are all taking a back seat to big oil, and these are now just common place occurrences with
nobody in any hurry to stop it from happening.


Train derailment sends oil tanker into West Virginia river | Fox News

"The office of Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin, which has issued a state of emergency, said the tanker cars were loaded with Bakken crude from North Dakota and headed to Yorktown, Virginia.

All but two of the 109 cars being hauled were tanker cars, officials said.

West Virginia American Water shut down a water treatment plant, located about 3 miles from the derailment, spokeswoman Laura Jordan. Another water plant downstream in the town of Cedar Grove also closed its intake, state health officials said.

The U.S. Transportation Department is weighing tougher safety regulations for rail shipments of crude, which can ignite and result in huge fireballs.

Responding to a series of fiery train crashes, including one this spring in Lynchburg, Virginia, the government proposed rules in July that would phase out tens of thousands of older tank cars that carry increasing quantities of crude oil and other highly flammable liquids. It's not clear how old the tankers were on the derailed train.

The Lynchburg train also was hauling Bakken crude oil from North Dakota to Yorktown, Virginia."
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#278  

Funny.... you don't hear much from the anti-pipeline folks, at times like these !

Ironic for me... I had to read your post, to find out about the CNR derailment in Northen Ontario Feb 14. Not much coverage this end of the province.

The newest rail-cars don't appear to be adequate for hauling Bakken, given how volatile it is. There is some contention that Bakken is still not being classified (dangerous goods wise) correctly.

Rgds, D.
 
/ Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #280  

Ain't it great that the province who will receive over $11 billion dollars in equalization payments in the 2017-2018 year is also the province whose citizens were responsible for shutting down a pipeline that would increase revenue for the provinces whose taxes generate a great deal of that $11 billion? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you... :rolleyes:
 

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