Trailer Size and tires

[Appygirl]

Hi Folks,
I will soon be searching for a trailer to hold my future tractor and hauling hay. The tractor will weight around 4000 pds, but the hay for example ( 180 bales x 50(?)-9000 pds, could be a bit more there.
I believe the trailer would be like a car carrier meaning double axle. I am sure I will be buying used. I am sure the size will be easy to find, but my concern after reading some threads are the tires. While buying a used trailer the tires will be also! Yes, I can look and see how much tread is left, but whats inside? I am assuming a trailer like this would already have brakes, right?

I also spoke with someone telling me that 10 ply was the best. What does that exactly mean for the tire?

Where could I go to get the trailer inspected for brakes, axles and tires for a prepurchase exam?

 

[Appygirl]

This subject must be beat to death. I'm sure I'll find some reading here.

 

[NFA Fun]

It is not just about the tires...it is a complete package of tires, axles, trailer design, etc. You can have a 10, 12, or even 14 ply tire on a little dinky trailer...the tires will support the weight, but the trailer will not. When looking for a trailer new or used, look at the capacity. Mine for example is an 18 ft with a 12k capacity. Each axle is rated at 6k, and both have brakes. Trailer weighs about 3k, so that leaves me with 9k for the load. Tires on it are a 10 ply load range E.

Keep in mind also, if this is a "bumper pull" to be aware of the capacity of the hitch.

 

[Jimbrown]

Well you are not getting much help. So a few suggestions. My opinion others may dissagree. First if you can buy new do it. My experience is that it is difficult to find a good used trailer. May very on where you live. Any trailer with the weight carring capacity you are talking about will have to have at least two 6000# rated axels and load range E tires (10 ply rated) Look here Tire Tech - Load Range/Ply Rating Identification LT and ST tires are rated the same.

Next it should have brakes on both axels unless it is really old or homemade I would be leary of old trailers and would not touch a homemade one.

On a used trailer unless it was less than 4 or 5 years old I would not care about what the tires looked like. Most trailer tires die of old age or overloading. The life of any heavely loaded tire. Truck, motorhome, trailer is 6 years 7 max even if they have full tread on them. Old tires with a heavy load are going to fail the first time you pull them very far. Heck even the new ST tires fail Don't get me started on that I express my opinion elswhere.

Look here for how to tell how old a tire is
Tire Tech - Determining the Age of a Tire

You are looking at a 10000 or 12000 GVW trailer. If it is bumper pull you will really need a classV hitch on your tow vehicle. A class IV would work but then you really need a (Weight Distributing Hitch) Before I did that I would buy a class V hitch. (my opinion) I would really want a goose neck myself but that is not really necessary. I have a 14 ft bumper pull and a 28 ft gooseneck. I much prefer to pull the gooseneck.

look here for hitch ratings.
Trailer Hitches
Well that ought to keep you busy for a while and raise more questions.

Getting a trailer inspected is iffiy I really don't have much idea where to get it done. I for sure would not trust any of the trailer sales places anywhwere near me. After all they want to sell you a new one not have you buy something from someone else. I would look for some smaller shop that does truck repair and kinda plead to the shop manager for help. Have no idea what it would cost. Don't know maybe a tractor dealer would/could do it.

 

[patrick_g]

Jim gave excellent advice. I will remind everyone that there are trailer tires available in 16 inch that are rated higher than "E" and they aren't all that expensive. The down side is that they are specked for a specific trailer wheel. This is because a standard wheel suitable for the load rating of an "E" tire would be the weak point. These trailer wheels and tires are used amoing other places on heavy towed RV's.

I have what was termed by the maker to be a HD car hauler. They customized it in the manufacturing process for me. I have two 6000 lb axles with electric brakes all the way around on new 16 inch load range "E" tires and a diamond plate deck and fenders. There is no way you could carry a payload over 10,000 lbs without exceeding ratings of components. Absolute max defensible load including the trailer weight wold be 12K lbs.

Would it do it and stay together? Probably. Would I recommend it? No, especially not for more than a mile or two or on a public road or above 20-30 MPH.

There is a reason why components are given load ratings. Exceeding them and feeling good about cheating the system and getting away with it is juvenile at best. It is the equivalent of playing Russian roulette and feeling smart because you didn't blow your brains out the first time. If you continue to play (with the revolver or the overloaded equipment) you will learn that contrary to the tendency for all our laws to be watered down, the law of gravity is still in full effect.

I second the negative comments regarding a used trailer. If I NEVER intended to load a trailer anywhere near its supposed limit then I might consider a used trailer (I've had them before) but if I am going to do some serious hauling and expect to go toward the limit of the equipment I would be worried about what had happened to the equipment before. Was it abused? Were the axles bent and straightened a few times. Is something fatigued and ready to fail? Are any weld about ready to let go? A weld can be cracked nearly in two and not be very easy to see.

Just how much money will be saved if you load the trailer to the max and it fails at speed on the road? Assuming no one is injured or killed, what could be the total costs of the mishap? How does that compare to the "savings?"

Pat

 

[Appygirl]

Now that's what I was looking for Jim and thank you. Need to reread those sight and let sink. Yes, I would love to get a gooseneck like my horse trailer. There is a great diffenrence on towing. I realize with the hay that it can vary on the load and to be safe I would go for 12000 rated trailer. With that much weight I really don't think I would get a bumper pull.

Thank you for your time.

I did see Dougster's thread and all I can say is wow! I think that's who is was on the tire search?

 

[Appygirl]

Hi Pat and thank you. Okay, so even the best eye would have trouble looking at axles to see that they are good....got it! So maybe not hauling 200 bales more like 150 or round bales.
I'm sure with a gooseneck trailer the price is up, but its soooo much easier!! Again thank you all for your time. I do appreciate hind sight so much. I'll do my best to avoid woulda shoulda coulda....

 

[patrick_g]

Appy, There isn't much in the way of negs re goose neck vs bumper. Goose necks do monopolize your bed a tad but for really HD trailer use are THE WAY.

On the flip side, don't discount the utility of a "bumper" pull. Real trailer folks don't really use bumper hitches for HD jobs. The receiver is ALWAYS secured to the frame. The real difference is in where the tongue weight is carried, over the rear axle or way back behind it. You sure don't need load equalization accessories with a goose.

My '97 Dodge-Cumins has a 14,000 lb rated Titan Class V receiver. (I changed out the OEM unit.) I have an adapter that adapts the class V to fit standard 2 inch draw bars. The 2 5/16 ball I just put on my 2008 F-250 diesel is rated for 30,000 lbs. Of course the OEM receiver on the Ford is only rated at 12 or 12.5K lbs. I don't like it when the ball is the weak link as if it fails it is pretty much gone while if a receiver fails it should distort first long before being yanked out of the truck.

Again, I'm not putting down a goose neck but I am mentioning that at a gross trailer weight not to exceed 12000 lbs, you can safely and economically get good and safe service with a "bumper pull." Price a new goose with two 6000 lb axles with say 20 ft on deck (including any dovetail) and compare that to a similar "bumper pull."

Other factors to consider include such things as where would you be driving. How much intricate backing (parallel parking with trailer) or whatever. Do you have a tow vehicle sturdy enough in the suspension to handle a bumper type at 12K?

I don't make my living towing a trailer and I am off road or on dirt or gravel more often than interstate. I do pull it at the speed limit (65 or 70) with a full load and it handles very well. A goose would be as good or better but at a fair upcharge.

Pat

 

[RobertN]

Curious about towing where you are at; is 65-70 the regular limit, ot the trailer limit?

Here in Calif, anything with a trailer is 55mph speed limit, even on the interstate where non-towing limit is 65mph or 70 mph.

My bumper pull trailer(16' 7000lb 2 axle) tows perfect at 70mph, as does our Scout Troop trailer(14' enclosed 7000lb 2 axle). For Scouts I run 55mph, cause I have kids in the truck, and BSA policy.

I don't make my living towing a trailer and I am off road or on dirt or gravel more often than interstate. I do pull it at the speed limit (65 or 70) with a full load and it handles very well. A goose would be as good or better but at a fair upcharge.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Curious about towing where you are at; is 65-70 the regular limit, ot the trailer limit?

Robert, Here in Oklahoma there is no standard separate towing speed limit. I have never seen a speed limit posted on interstates or state highways different for towing.

Our "unless otherwise posted" highway speed limit is 65MPH with some interstates and toll roads posted at 40 min-70 max. I have seen some limits posted at 75MPH.

I lived in SOCAL and do recall the 55 speed limit for ANY TOWING but don't recall any 18 wheelers paying any attention to the double nickel.

I was in Ohio for a while as a small lad and recall the night time speed limit being posted as slower than daytime.

Pat