tractor won't start... help me troubleshoot it.

[Coyote machine]

Your battery was near dead, so you replaced it. Was it real old? How many hours on the tractor?
You had your starter tested off the tractor and it passed. You reinstalled it, but the symptoms are the same. You turn the key to crank position and don't even get a click. Has that changed since you began messing with it?
If so, how?
Now, if you haven't already you need to verify both your positive AND negative battery cables are able to handle the necessary current from the battery needed to start your tractor.
Cut into the sheathing that wraps the NEGATIVE battery cable, close to where it attaches to the frame.
See if there is any evidence of corrosion in between the cable strands. If there is, replace the entire cable. Do the same to the positive cable, while exercising due caution to not allow your knife/razor blade to contact anything except the sheathing on the cable so to prevent sparking /short.
Until you've ruled out the battery cables, you can't logically trace out the start circuit of your tractor through the ignition switch and starter relay and other devices like safety interlocks. One must start at the battery and work forward. All else is folly.

 

[k0ua]

Where do I begin? It always seems on these threads, that nearly everyone goes about trouble shooting backwards from the way I would tackle it. People take starters off and have them tested, when a starter is the VERY LAST likely culprit to a no start situation. Way down on the bottom of the list about number 30 for reasons a tractor wont crank.

And from your description we have a no crank situation not a no start situation. Sure the tractor won't start, but it cannot start unless it can crank first. Big difference. So why won't it crank? You multimeter is your friend, not your wrench. Leave the wrench at home and bring the multimeter. But first buy the service manual. Best money you will ever spend. Look at the electrical schematic as it pertains to the safety/cranking circuitry. If you stare at that for a while you will discover, that it is a miracle that the engine cranks at all. There are dozens of reasons for the tractor to NOT crank, and only one way that it will crank.

You mentioned that the lights were on bright, and did they dim or go out when you turned the key? If so, then you have a possible bad battery (high resistance internal to the battery). This is easily proven or disproven by a simple test with a multimeter on the terminals of the battery. If the battery voltage on the terminals drops below 10 volts, when attempting to crank you have a bad battery. In your case your battery you wrenched out instead of testing yourself with your multimeter tested "bad". Sure.. Now you have a new one. BUT the original battery would have likely cranked your tractor even if it was not in the best of shape. Now you spent $100 for a battery and maybe some money for a diagnostic check on your starter, and you tractor still won't crank the engine. Why won't it?

We must find out why by using the scientific method, of performing some simple tests (like that battery post test) to either rule in our out the battery, and them moving on to the battery clamp test to rule out a high resistance joint there and moving on to the battery ground/chassis connection and the starter post connection to rule out bad battery cables or bad connections, which several posters mentioned before.

So a bad battery is about number 15 in the likelihood of why your tractor won't crank. Way down on the list. The bad battery connections or bad cables are above that by several notches.
Remember me saying that it is a miracle that our tractors crank in the first place? Well I really meant that. There are sooo... many reasons for it not to crank.

Defective: Starter relay, starter relay wiring or connector, clutch switch or range switch, seat safety switch, PTO switch or associated wiring, HST treadle pedal centering switch, or in more modern tractors , electronic module failures or connections. At least 15 things maybe more in front of that battery that you replaced.

You can quickly eliminate things like starters by using a screwdriver to short across the starter main cable connection and the starter solenoid post (starter solenoid is inside the starter). Of course as others have pointed out, you take your life in your hands if you mess up and the tractor is in gear and runs over you. It is not likely to do that, but it has happened.

So step 1: get the service manual, and go over it with a fine toothed comb until you understand how the safety/cranking system works. Step 2: NEVER leave home without your multimeter. It is the absolute best tool in the box when it comes to any kind of electrical trouble shooting. But you do have to have a knowledge of the scientific method (divide and conquer) and how to operate and interpret the readings and form your hypothesis. Then you test that hypothesis.

So if all this sounds like "crap" and it didn't make sense to you, then my suggestion would be to see if you can get it up on a trailer and get it to the dealer or perhaps they make field service calls.

In any case, good luck with it, and if you want detailed explanations of any of my ravings, then holler back and I will try to help. I likely don't have the service manual for your tractor, so we would have to talk in generalities but I will try to help.

 

[Spanner]

We're on the same page of the same metaphorical book 'k0ua' and' Coyote machine'.

Just to add, before waving a knife blade at the battery cables, disconnect the -ve cable at the battery first. That way you avoid any sparks/injuries.

"Let's be careful out there" as Capt. Furillo famously said.

:wrench:

 

[areid]

We're on the same page of the same metaphorical book 'k0ua' and' Coyote machine'.

Just to add, before waving a knife blade at the battery cables, disconnect the -ve cable at the battery first. That way you avoid any sparks/injuries.

"Let's be careful out there" as Capt. Furillo famously said.

:wrench:

Im putting my money on an interlock, most likely the drive reverse pedal. I often need to tip my pedal slightly to allow the tractor to start. Another thing I intentionally do is put the tractor PTO lever into the on position when I shut the tractor down. If someone ever wanted to take it it will not start until that leaver is disengaged. Good luck.

 

[k0ua]

We're on the same page of the same metaphorical book 'k0ua' and' Coyote machine'.

Just to add, before waving a knife blade at the battery cables, disconnect the -ve cable at the battery first. That way you avoid any sparks/injuries.

"Let's be careful out there" as Capt. Furillo famously said.

:wrench:

I am guessing here that -ve equals negative vehicle earth, or what we would call negative ground? You Kiwi's and Aussies always have interesting names for things. :thumbsup:

 

[BX23S-1]

Im putting my money on an interlock, most likely the drive reverse pedal. I often need to tip my pedal slightly to allow the tractor to start. Another thing I intentionally do is put the tractor PTO lever into the on position when I shut the tractor down. If someone ever wanted to take it it will not start until that leaver is disengaged. Good luck.

Not a bad idea. I have a secret fuel shut off valve.
But if someone wants to steal it bad enough, they`ll steal it without worrying to much, snatch-n-grab, its gone.

 

[Coyote machine]

We're on the same page of the same metaphorical book 'k0ua' and' Coyote machine'.

Just to add, before waving a knife blade at the battery cables, disconnect the -ve cable at the battery first. That way you avoid any sparks/injuries.

"Let's be careful out there" as Capt. Furillo famously said.

:wrench:

For clarity, I wasn't suggesting hastily waving a knife blade at any battery cables. I did suggest carefully cutting enough sheathing, starting with the negative battery cable to determine if corrosion is present under the sheath/jacket of the cable. Then carefully doing same to the positive cable, exercising due caution, no waving, to see the condition of the positive cable. If no corrosion is found to be apparent in either cable it would be safe to move on to other things in the circuit that would keep the tractor's starting circuit from allowing the starter to crank; namely things like neutral safety switch, ignition switch or ignition/starter relay, seat or range selector or clutch switch, etc.

One step at a time, test and verify each with kOua's favorite tool, your VOM, (volt/Ohm/Multimeter), Oh, and don't forget a service manual's electrical circuit diagrams.

Now I agree with kOua's methods BUT I feel not everyone armed with a meter and service manual/wiring diagram is able to parse out what the diagram means or how to test various circuits. And for me at least, here lies the rub, and is why I think a LOT of misdiagnosed starters and batteries and switches, relays of all kinds get replaced by those who are desperate to get their tractor/car/truck back up and running. Electrical troubleshooting for someone with training and experience is not difficult, but for the average DIYer it can be a daunting task.

Having said the above, if one brings the questions they have here to TBN they can usually get the guidance needed to muddle through and save some dough doing so, and have a better chance of repairing or replacing what the actual problem is INSTEAD of hit and miss guesswork.

Guesswork is like betting against the house at a casino; one is bound to loose more often than win.
So if one wants to win the electrical troubleshooting game one must have certain tools; multimeter, wiring diagram AND some understanding of how electrical circuits work. The last tool is what I believe is missing for most who are trying to figure out why something like a tractor won't start. As stated already one needs to determine if the tractor won't start, WHY it won't start. Is it because the starter doesn't crank the engine over when the key is turned all the way to crank position? If so, that doesn't lead to concluding the starter is at fault. It does lead one to find out which of numerous items may be keeping the starter from cranking when the key is turned. And so on, one step at a time....

 

[BX23S-1]

Absolutely Coyote, proper procedures AND safety, is never practiced enough. This could be something as simple as an ignition switch, like it was on my john deere. None of us are there, to actually see if the proper things are being checked or not, so here we sit, playing armchair diagnostics. How do we even know what kind of experience the OP has. I`m guessing not a lot... which is no way his fault. Likely just the average guy trying to save a few bucks by not taking the tractor to someone to get it diagnosed & repaired properly. I`ll bet its something very simple... its likely just getting over looked possibly... or the guy just simply has no time to thoroughly figure it out.

 

[k0ua]

You see, I blame it all on the school system. We teach kids in school at a minimum for 12 years. We teach them a lot of things, but why in the heck couldn't we devote a week in 8th grade to basic electrical principals and troubleshooting? Sure would save a guy a heck of a lot of money in their lifetime wouldn't it? why could this not be done in 8th or 9th grade science?

You know simple stuff like the special relationship of voltage, current and resistance that Ohm's law so eloquently defines. Or how about a day of hands on experience with some batteries, wire and resistors and that old trusty VOM in every students hands? Think of the lasting impression it would leave.

I do believe I could be talked into working up the curriculum for a few days course. Even if it was one day, I could some justice to it. But no, I know it will never happen. Too many other "important" things to teach a child. You can't teach them something practical that they could use for the rest of their lives... Just dreaming...

 

[BX23S-1]

You see, I blame it all on the school system. We teach kids in school at a minimum for 12 years. We teach them a lot of things, but why in the heck couldn't we devote a week in 8th grade to basic electrical principals and troubleshooting? Sure would save a guy a heck of a lot of money in their lifetime wouldn't it? why could this not be done in 8th or 9th grade science?

You know simple stuff like the special relationship of voltage, current and resistance that Ohm's law so eloquently defines. Or how about a day of hands on experience with some batteries, wire and resistors and that old trusty VOM in every students hands? Think of the lasting impression it would leave.

I do believe I could be talked into working up the curriculum for a few days course. Even if it was one day, I could some justice to it. But no, I know it will never happen. Too many other "important" things to teach a child. You can't teach them something practical that they could use for the rest of their lives... Just dreaming...

Well Jim,
many many MANY moons ago, and i do mean MANY, thats what was taught when i went to school. It helped set me up for the future course of my life. All they can teach kids today is liberalism and beat somebody down for their next free handout. What happened to the days when it was a handup and not a handout. Now its just hands-up, hand-outs.

As simple as a 12 volt system is, it dosent get any easier. Power starts somewhere, and ends somewhere. The very first place you start, is the power source. Then follow it until you find an open, and thats where your problem ends up being. Like others have said in here, you start at your power source... i totally agree.

I use to be a instructor for a large auto maker. I taught technicians diagnostics. Even 30yrs ago when i was teaching, more than half the class didnt make it. If i were still teaching today, 1 out of 1,000 people might make it. Not good odds... kids are getting dumber by the day. There is no hope for them. These days, i`m just hangin on for my last ride in life.

I keep hoping that the OP comes back with the problem found & fixed.