tractor info needed

   / tractor info needed #1  

Lazy

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
527
Location
Missouri
Tractor
ford 1920 w/fel and bh, case 470, allis chalmers B 1937, JD 450 track loader, Case vac, 3 cub cadets ford lgt 125, Kubota 2230/60 inch mower.1948 farmall cub 1953 farmall cub
Hi
Could someone explain what is meant by live hydraulics on a tractor? Also the difference in how the PTO operates on the older tractors verses the newer tractors?

Charlie
 
   / tractor info needed #2  
Back in the early days of tractors, when options like hydraulics and power take-offs were first appearing, they were driven THROUGH the transmission. When you would depress the clutch pedal (or pull the clutch LEVER in the case of hand clutches) you would kill the power going to the pto or hydraulics from the engine. Hence, pto and hydraulics quit "moving".

"Live power" is credited (depending on which version you hear) to either Oliver or Minneapolis Moline. The old "transmission drive had a serious flaw. If you had a pto driven implement on the tractor, and you depressed the clutch to stop moving, the flywheel effect of the implement would continue to "back feed" power to the transmission, even as the power of the engine was no longer being connected to the transmission. That has shoved many an old tractor through the barn door. Live power usually uses a secondary clutch to control input power TO the pto, as well as to isolate "power" being back-fed through the pto shaft to the transmission (by that flywhel effect) The secondary clutch can be a simple 2-stage clutch employing the same clutch pedal as the engine-to-transmission clutch, OR, in some cases, a seperate (USUALLY hydraulic actuated) INDEPENDENT pto clutch. SOME independent pto systems are electrically controlled, via an electromagnetic clutch or solenoid valve.

Live hydraulics are of the same line of thought. Early hydraulic systems had their pumps driven through the transmission. Depress the clutch and loose hydraulic pumping. Live hydraulics have their pump directly driven off the engine, not being effected at all by the clutch. In SOME cases, the hydraulic pump will be driven through the same mechanics as the live PTO, but uneffected by the pto being in or out of gear. In those cases, depressing the second stage of the 2-stage clutch will cease hydraulic function momentarily.

Hope this helps.
 
   / tractor info needed #3  
FWJ gave yuo some good info.. however.. you make a reference to old vs new.

As early as the 50's the live pto and hyds were in production.. and that was on fords.. Other colors may have even come out sooner... IE.. my 1955 ford 660 has a 2 stage clutch and live pto, and also an engine mounted pump providing live hyds... IE.. old is a relative term..

soundguy
 
   / tractor info needed #4  
Allis had live hydraulics and live PTO in the 40's on their WD series. It had a foot clutch to stop everything and a hand clutch that stoped tractor only and left the PTO and Hyd working. Farmall had live lifts on their super A C and cub but not live PTO. The Allis CA had live lift and live PTO by using a hand clutch the disengauged the right side axle, there-by letting the differential turn on one side only.
Oliver had the first true live PTO, it had a hand clutch that enguaged or disenguaged the PTO and had nothing to do with the travel of the tractor and the foot clutch had nothing to do with the PTO.
Now have we really confused you or what. later, nat
 
   / tractor info needed #5  
JD also had live hydraulics in the 40's as my 49 M is so equipped.
 
   / tractor info needed
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Hi
You guy's have answered my questions as I knew you would. thanks very much.

Charlie
 

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