Toyota Prius

[sixdogs]

It's a shame we cant buy what we really want--a smallish vehicle with a diesel in it and overdrive geared.
Well, at least what I would like.

 

[IslandTractor]

It's a shame we cant buy what we really want--a smallish vehicle with a diesel in it and overdrive geared.
Well, at least what I would like.

VW Jetta, VW Golf, Chevy Cruze.

 

[sixdogs]

VW Jetta, VW Golf, Chevy Cruze.

No dice. I've learned my lessons on VW and Chevy.

 

[IslandTractor]

No dice. I've learned my lessons on VW and Chevy.

well, you've just eliminated two of the top 3 automobile manufacturers worldwide. Check out Consumer Reports on VW reliability over the past 5 years. Not sure about the Cruze but the VW reliability has greatly improved. Manual is the way to go for economy. Same MPG as auto but lower maintenance costs. Or wait until Spring 2014 and check out the new Mazda 6 diesel.

 

[MossRoad]

what I'm saying is while the suburban with three on board roles past the Prius with one, it's the suburban that's getting better mileage, or efficiency. It's not just the number on the sticker, you have to be smarter than that! HS

Compare apples to apples Scott. One vehicle with one person, not one with one and the other with 9. With that logic, an aircraft carrier with 5000 people will get better mileage than a Suburban with 9.

 

[MossRoad]

The formula is: gallons per mile/people in car
A Suburban getting 20 MPG with 3 people is using 0.016667 gallons per person per mile, ((1/20)/3)=0.016666667
A Suburban getting 20 MPG with 6 people is using 0.0083333333 gallons per person per mile, ((1/20)/3)=0.0083333333
A 15 passenger van getting 15 MPG with 15 people is using 0.004444444444 gallons per person per mile), ((1/15)/15)=0.004444444444
A Prius getting 50 MPG with 1 person is using 0.016667 gallons per person per mile, ((1/50)/1)=0.02
A Prius getting 50 MPG with 4 people is using 0.005 gallons per person per mile, ((1/50)/4)=0.005

So as a way to efficiently move people, a Prius getting 50MPG carrying 4 people is less efficient than a 15 passenger van getting 15 MPG with 15 people on board. With 5 people, the Prius is slightly more efficient than the van (0.004 vs 0.004444)

Aaron Z

True, but I'll bet you can't find 15 people to car pool every day with Scott. :laughing:

 

[dmccarty]

It would be interesting to see the difference in actual sale prices vs list prices on those machines...

Aaron Z

I would bet the are going to be comparable unless the Jeeps do not sell well but there has been big demand, or at least Internet talk, about having a diesel Jeep so I would expect the prices are going to stick at least for awhile. I don't know much about the Mercedes model line up but it looks like they have three new style SUVs. The one model I looked at was mentioned a comparable to the diesel Cherokee but I wonder if one of the other models would be more applicable. In any case, I was shocked to see a MB anywhere close in price to a US made vehicle. The MB does have some really cool technology though. :laughing::laughing::laughing: I wonder what it will cost to fix that cool technology? :shocked:

Just by dumb luck one of my CC's sent me an email a few days ago talking about their car buying program.

I just went and used their website to build the MB and Jeep. Now, the diesel is not showing up as an option in the Jeep web page nor on the CC car build site, but I don't see how the reviews I was reading get the Cherokee to $50-60K. The most expensive I could get the Jeep was to $36,300. :confused3:

The CC website said that the Cherokee, no diesel, was $36,300 and the dealer would sell for $34,000 for a savings of $2,300. The MB with a diesel and some of the cool technology that Jeep does not have listed for $48,900, with a selling price guessed at $46,800 for a savings of $2,100.

Since the Jeep does not have the cool technology stuff, if I delete that from the MB, the prices go $45,200 MSRP, with the dealer selling for $43,000 with a savings of $1,800. The MB diesel costs less than the gas engine.

Those prices are still pretty close which really surprises me. I would never have thought about buying an MB but it sure is cheaper than a new F350! :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

You ever see the safety ratings of those high mileage cars in the 80s and 90s? They are not much more than a beer can with wheels. That's why they got high mileage.... no structure to speak of.

Yes, but the added weight of the safety structure is not that much from what I have read and seen, and in any case, the differential in MPG is substantial. I do think part of the MPG reduction is today's cars have much higher HP and torque than the 80's. Course Ethanol is not helping either.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

It's a shame we cant buy what we really want--a smallish vehicle with a diesel in it and overdrive geared.
Well, at least what I would like.

The Jeep and the MB I was looking at had 8-9 gear trannys! The MB has a smaller diesel and gets decent MPG.

Later,
Dan

 

[MossRoad]

well, you've just eliminated two of the top 3 automobile manufacturers worldwide. Check out Consumer Reports on VW reliability over the past 5 years. Not sure about the Cruze but the VW reliability has greatly improved. Manual is the way to go for economy. Same MPG as auto but lower maintenance costs. Or wait until Spring 2014 and check out the new Mazda 6 diesel.

Only if you base that on sales revenue, not number of cars sold. VW owns at least 10 other brands besides VW. Mostly luxury cars. Their sales of actual VW brand autos is not that high, yet their revenue from those luxury car brands is very high. In fact, VW ranks BEHIND GM, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, and Nissan and their sales are down 18% from last year.

 

[MossRoad]

The Jeep and the MB I was looking at had 8-9 gear trannys! The MB has a smaller diesel and gets decent MPG.

Later,
Dan

Yeah. I test drove a 2012 Impala with a 3.6 aluminum VVT gasoline direct injection engine and 6 speed auto. It is faster than cars from the late 60s and gets 30 on the highway. And it won't rust out like those old cars and is safer in a wreck. You can find them with the LTZ trim package for $16k with factory warranty on the drivetrain. Big interior and room for 5 AND their suitcases, as some would like to mention. :laughing:

 

[IslandTractor]

Yeah. I test drove a 2012 Impala with a 3.6 aluminum VVT gasoline direct injection engine and 6 speed auto. It is faster than cars from the late 60s and gets 30 on the highway. And it won't rust out like those old cars and is safer in a wreck. You can find them with the LTZ trim package for $16k with factory warranty on the drivetrain. Big interior and room for 5 AND their suitcases, as some would like to mention. :laughing:

I rented one of the 2012 Impalas and was amazed by the power and off the line pickup. Got close to 30 mpg too.

 

[MossRoad]

I rented one of the 2012 Impalas and was amazed by the power and off the line pickup. Got close to 30 mpg too.

We have a 2000 with the 3.8. It has 190K+ miles. I've had to replace the water pump once and the plastic intake manifold once. That's about it other than normal wear items. It still gets 29 on the highway. But, it is rusting at the body mounts now and half the dashboard lights don't work and the ones that do look like a Christmas tree flashing. :laughing: In all seriousness, its still a big comfy car to drive around in, the seat heaters work and it goes zoom.... but the 2012 goes ZOOOM! compared to it. But, the 2012 and 2013 all come with that 3.6 vvt engine. There was no other engine option those years. And they have generous plastic interiors! :laughing: That's the drawback. Even if you got the leather interior, the dash and door panels were plastic. That's the only drawback. The 2014 is very nice, with much nicer interior. I hope they depreciate quickly. Like I mentioned, never buy a new car, especially Chevy. Let someone else eat the depreciation.

 

[IslandTractor]

We have a 2000 with the 3.8. It has 190K+ miles. I've had to replace the water pump once and the plastic intake manifold once. That's about it other than normal wear items. It still gets 29 on the highway. But, it is rusting at the body mounts now and half the dashboard lights don't work and the ones that do look like a Christmas tree flashing. :laughing: In all seriousness, its still a big comfy car to drive around in, the seat heaters work and it goes zoom.... but the 2012 goes ZOOOM! compared to it. But, the 2012 and 2013 all come with that 3.6 vvt engine. There was no other engine option those years. And they have generous plastic interiors! :laughing: That's the drawback. Even if you got the leather interior, the dash and door panels were plastic. That's the only drawback. The 2014 is very nice, with much nicer interior. I hope they depreciate quickly. Like I mentioned, never buy a new car, especially Chevy. Let someone else eat the depreciation.

I didn't mention in my earlier note on the Impala that the interior was reminiscent of a 1990 Chevy. I understand they have really upgraded the 2014 but boy it sure took them a long time.

 

[powerpace]

They are bought for tax credits, government kick backs, dump them pricing to government, not mpg and maintenance costs. HS

Some cases maybe but I don't think that is true everywhere in the world. We are not the only country in the world.

I got no rebate, kickback under the table bribe or tax break. What I did get was a reasonable priced car that gets 50mpg, milage longevity, maintenance costs that are minimal compared to a traditional vehicle. No belts to replace, no scheduled engine timing issues, no brake replacements. My current Prius has 60,000+ miles is on it's second set of tires "at 58,000 miles" do my own oil changes and no belt issues. Never expect to change brakes. Primary battery is guaranteed to 160,000 miles. Most batteries are showing signs of deterioration upward of 300,000 miles. I also got a auto insurance bill that was less than anyother midsize car.

At 300,000 miles I will have used "at 45mpg just for you non-believers" 6667 gallons of gas using the current cost of $3.50. That equals $23,335.00. Prius cost in 2012 was $27,000. Another car getting the average 30mpg will have used 10,000 gallons of gas equaling $35,000. Add in you own costs for maintaining a standard car for 300,000 miles. Plus insurance. Value after 300,000 miles. For most people that 300,000 is never reached with one car it would take two new cars or in some cases three new cars. For all you people out there that say doing your own engine maintenance is the way to go. More power to you.

True. A hybrid is not for everyone.

 

[dave1949]

We have a 2000 with the 3.8. It has 190K+ miles. I've had to replace the water pump once and the plastic intake manifold once. That's about it other than normal wear items. It still gets 29 on the highway. But, it is rusting at the body mounts now and half the dashboard lights don't work and the ones that do look like a Christmas tree flashing. :laughing: In all seriousness, its still a big comfy car to drive around in, the seat heaters work and it goes zoom.... but the 2012 goes ZOOOM! compared to it. But, the 2012 and 2013 all come with that 3.6 vvt engine. There was no other engine option those years. And they have generous plastic interiors! :laughing: That's the drawback. Even if you got the leather interior, the dash and door panels were plastic. That's the only drawback. The 2014 is very nice, with much nicer interior. I hope they depreciate quickly. Like I mentioned, never buy a new car, especially Chevy. Let someone else eat the depreciation.

Reminds me of my son's early 2000's Impala. The auto transmission has been on the cusp of dying--for four years now. :laughing: One rear quarter panel is bashed in. It's the car that won't die and it's not worth fixing.

 

[two_bit_score]

I am just shocked at the poor MPG in todays car vs back in the late 80s and early 90s. I had a boss driving 100 miles round trip and she had a Honda CR5, I think that is what it was, that was getting 50 MPG. Cars have gone up in weight because of safety equipment and options, and I suppose pollution control might have cost some MPG but danged we have have little itty bitty cars today and we are talking 30 MPG! Woo Hoo!

Then there is the price of the vehicles. A new Ford F350, like I own now, will cost over $55K! I looked at the new Jeep Cherokee with a diesel and the estimates are that the car will cost around $55-60K! Its a wee little itty bitty thing. We could SLEEP in the Cherokee we had as a kid. If the Jeep is really going to cost this much money, I think Jeep has a big problem. I just looked at the Mercedes SUV and their prices were about 10 grand CHEAPER with a diesel. The diesel gets 24 and 33 MPG vs their gasser at 19 and 26. There did not seem to be much difference in prices in the vehicles for gas vs diesel. The Jeep diesel is a V6 and the Merc is a 4 banger with the Jeep having a bit more HP and torque but $10K worth.

My F350 gets 21-22 MPG most of the year, and depending on temps, it might slip to 19-20 in the winter. The truck can haul five people and a whole bunch of stuff. The little vehicles are easier to park, get a 30% better MPG but that is all.

For the prices on these itty, bitty, vehicles we should be getting 110 MPG! :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Just hit 180,000 miles on the F350. I sure hope it makes it to at least 360,000 miles in another 11 years. Course, a new F350 will be over $100K at that point! :shocked:

Later,
Dan

I had a 1979 Toyota corolla that got 41 mpg combined. This talk about a $40,000 TDI getting great mpg at 48 is obscene to me.

And it must have been a great safe car too because I never wrecked it.

.

 

[powerpace]

One thing I did not like about the Prius was that it bottomed out on my center high roads with 4 adults in it. I had to keep the center of the road boxed bladed down. Oh, wait, that means without the Prius less seat time is needed.:confused2:

Is that on a public road? I hear they are retro fitting gravel on some roads in Texas. Possibly to encourage more horse and buggy use?

TxDOT Plans to Convert Some Roads to Gravel | The Texas Tribune

 

[powerpace]

The formula is: gallons per mile/people in car
A Suburban getting 20 MPG with 3 people is using 0.016667 gallons per person per mile, ((1/20)/3)=0.016666667
A Suburban getting 20 MPG with 6 people is using 0.0083333333 gallons per person per mile, ((1/20)/3)=0.0083333333
A 15 passenger van getting 15 MPG with 15 people is using 0.004444444444 gallons per person per mile), ((1/15)/15)=0.004444444444
A Prius getting 50 MPG with 1 person is using 0.016667 gallons per person per mile, ((1/50)/1)=0.02
A Prius getting 50 MPG with 4 people is using 0.005 gallons per person per mile, ((1/50)/4)=0.005

So as a way to efficiently move people, a Prius getting 50MPG carrying 4 people is less efficient than a 15 passenger van getting 15 MPG with 15 people on board. With 5 people, the Prius is slightly more efficient than the van (0.004 vs 0.004444)

Aaron Z

The Suburban will cost $40,000+. My Prius $27,000. You are not comparing anything to anything unless you factor all costs. Fifteen seat van about $50,000. And are you going to be hauling the max load all the time?

I don't know about you but I will not ride with 15 people in a van because those 15 people may not care to go where I want to go. Are they splitting the gas cost? Then you got public transportation. Or a Church group which is a whole other subject.

 

[IslandTractor]

I had a 1979 Toyota corolla that got 41 mpg combined. This talk about a $40,000 TDI getting great mpg at 48 is obscene to me.

And it must have been a great safe car too because I never wrecked it.

.

Make that a $20,000-25,000 TDI in an era where a similar new Corolla would cost about the same. And, both the Jetta TDI and new Corolla are more comfortable, handle better and are far more survivable in a high speed crash.