tough paint

[whitedogone]

I've not had very good luck with tsc paint holding up very well to abuse. Are there tougher paints that are available. I'm not looking for $$$ automotive paints.

 

[ray66v]

No.

The Industrial enamels can be reasonably tough, but they do require a long curing time, (Up to 90 days). If you can, leave the painted item in the sun for a while to "bake" it. This will drive out the solvents, and make it tougher.

Other things you can do:

Apply the proper amount. Applying the paint too heavy will trap solvents and reduce durability.

Wait the prescribed time between coats. This will help the solvents evaporate.

Adding a hardener will help with adhesion, which increases durability.

Using an automotive primer that has hardener in it, will allow molecular cross linkage between the primer coats, and the finish coats, which will also increase adhesion.

When I do all of the above, and "bake" industrial enamel in the spray booth, (1 hour, at 160 degrees). it is surprisingly tough, for it's cost. It can be as chip proof as most automotive finishes.

There are high end industrial coatings that are the most durable coatings I know of, but they are not available to the public, and are very expensive.

 

[BHD]

since the lead was removed out of paint none of it hold up very well,(color fast) IMO.

I had some success, with ACE paints, If I want a color that is on the list, and matches, I have painted trailers and other with them, and felt it was a good deal, but the colors do fade out in time,

Sherwin-Williams paints in there industrial line, (what I use the most, partly because I go in and buy mistints and use them, but have them to be good).
they can and will mix to match any color, (there paints do fade as well),


I have little problem with them "lasting or sticking" if properly prepped, but the colors fade

the John Deere paints are reasonable but still fade but some better for color fast, but expensive, you will nearly need lacquer thinner to clean up with over mineral spirits,
(I think I like the JD paints best but the cost (in our area) is the most expensive), but have fewer colors to choose from.

 

[whitedogone]

I mostly paint jd green color.

 

[whitedogone]

TSC has Hardener that they sell to add to there enamels. I've always been kind of scared to use it because of the hazards.

 

[beenthere]

I mostly paint jd green color.

We just can't get john deere "color" anywhere but from Deere paint, from my experience. That is if you want to match the real JD color.

Besides the paint directions, be sure that the preparation for painting is done, and the temperature is right.

 

[ray66v]

TSC has Hardener that they sell to add to there enamels. I've always been kind of scared to use it because of the hazards.

You do not have to use the hardener to get a good job. Hardener will not make the paint substantially harder. Hardener makes it cure faster, adhere better, and converts the resins to a product that improves gloss hold out.

I have even used spray cans of industrial enamel with good success. You just have to get the solvents out of the paint, so it can cure. Industrial enamel uses a lot of "cheap" solvents, so this is a slow process.

Aside from using the "Texas heat lamp", (the sun), to drive out the solvents, you could potentially "bake" the parts in a room with a heater, or use infrared heat lamps. Solvents will potentially build up in a small sealed area, so use caution.

 

[wedgeheaded]

POR 15 sells stuff that is hard and tough. It likes a rusty surface best. Don't put it on over existing paint because if the paint letys go, the POR goes with it. I sell the product line but I'm sure you can order it online from their website. Roughly $44/qt. My next thought would be auto acrylic enamel with a cat. hardener. Pricy but durable.

 

[SPIKER]

You do not have to use the hardener to get a good job. Hardener will not make the paint substantially harder. Hardener makes it cure faster, adhere better, and converts the resins to a product that improves gloss hold out.

I have even used spray cans of industrial enamel with good success. You just have to get the solvents out of the paint, so it can cure. Industrial enamel uses a lot of "cheap" solvents, so this is a slow process.

Aside from using the "Texas heat lamp", (the sun), to drive out the solvents, you could potentially "bake" the parts in a room with a heater, or use infrared heat lamps. Solvents will potentially build up in a small sealed area, so use caution.

the hardener actually makes the paint much more durable and cure better. how it does this is at a molecular level by cross linking the paint molecules into a more solid linked/bonded together surface. this also helps to keep the paint on the subsurface which MUST be prepared well. Bare metal needs to be etched with ether a self etching primer and or a etching phosphoric acid that forms crystals on the surface actual converts part of the surface to crystal structure that the pain adheres to well. best to etch the bare metal then spray a metal conditioning / self etching primer over the surface then let the primer surfacer dry correctly sand & clean then paint per all MFG directions.

I've painted cars trucks tractors all kinds of industrial equipment. painted cars for a living for a wile back when the Imron Catalyzed paints were new. Now a days the hardeners are available at TSC to work with their paints and are a good use. my now 8 year old dump trailer used exclusively for wet sand rock creek gravel and wood still looks good has good color fast and only has some scratched surface in the inner bed and it was painted back in 02 using TSC Blue tractor paint with hardener mixed in. I would imagine over 100ton of jagged creek wash dumped out of it.


Mark

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Whenever I can, I have my stuff powder coated rather than paint.
100 times more durable, and the bond is forever.
If you build lots of stuff, develop a relationship with your favorite powdercoating establishment. That way you can drop off small parts that can go in with someone elses larger order, thus avoiding the minimum charge.
:thumbsup:

 

[ray66v]

the hardener actually makes the paint much more durable and cure better. how it does this is at a molecular level by cross linking the paint molecules into a more solid linked/bonded together surface.

Mark

Thanks for the info....but, I already mentioned that.

I have over 33 years experience painting, cars, trucks, aircraft, motorcycles, boats, equipment, etc., etc. And, I have been directly involved in field testing, and development, of many of the products we use today.

In my last 10 years, with a helper, I averaged almost 20 vehicle repairs painted a week. That's about 10,000 right there alone.

 

[lostcause]

Whenever I can, I have my stuff powder coated rather than paint.
100 times more durable, and the bond is forever.
If you build lots of stuff, develop a relationship with your favorite powdercoating establishment. That way you can drop off small parts that can go in with someone elses larger order, thus avoiding the minimum charge.
:thumbsup:

i've never had anything powder coated personally, but i have seen a lot of things that are factory powder coated - fisher snow plows in particular. the coating is very durable and holds up well to the sandblasting it gets from road dirt. my biggest complaint is that on snow plows it seems to be too tough, and when the plows flex, it does not stretch but instead seems to loses adhesion to the metal. when rust gets behind the coating (it always does) it seems to spread very fast, instead of just an isolated rust spot on a painted plow. maybe it's the flexing the plows are subjected to, or maybe it's poor prep on the steel, or maybe it's the general makeup of powder coating. i'm not enough of an expert to decide.

i can say that aside from fading, i've had exceptional durability from rustoleum paints. i use either the clean metal or rusty metal primer as is needed. my equipment trailer is 11 year old sunburst yellow and has no peeling anywhere, and only rust where i have gouged the paint to the metal. i only cleaned the steel with a wire brush & wiped it down with hardware store paint thinner prior to brush painting it.

 

[SPIKER]

i've never had anything powder coated personally, but i have seen a lot of things that are factory powder coated - fisher snow plows in particular. the coating is very durable and holds up well to the sandblasting it gets from road dirt. my biggest complaint is that on snow plows it seems to be too tough, and when the plows flex, it does not stretch but instead seems to loses adhesion to the metal. when rust gets behind the coating (it always does) it seems to spread very fast, instead of just an isolated rust spot on a painted plow. maybe it's the flexing the plows are subjected to, or maybe it's poor prep on the steel, or maybe it's the general makeup of powder coating. i'm not enough of an expert to decide.

i can say that aside from fading, i've had exceptional durability from rustoleum paints. i use either the clean metal or rusty metal primer as is needed. my equipment trailer is 11 year old sunburst yellow and has no peeling anywhere, and only rust where i have gouged the paint to the metal. i only cleaned the steel with a wire brush & wiped it down with hardware store paint thinner prior to brush painting it.

Powder coating is very similar to paint in that 90% of the work is the surface prep required prior to coating. the main advantage to powder coating is that as soon as the part cools down from the oven it is ready to go no more curing is required. I had built powder coating equipment for a good number of years and did my fair share of powder coat painting & been to PPGs powder coating classes that were real good. Company I was working with/for at the time is still cranking out Powder coating systems. Like standard painting there needs to be proper substrate prep. phosphate cleaning/coating is major step in getting the powder to stick. the powder chemistry is very similar to enamel with hardener in it.

Powder coating peeling off the heavy snow plows is more than likely due to the prep and or the fact that the heavy metal was not heated properly to cure the powder. The heavier the part the longer it takes the surface temperature MUST come up to the powders chemistry cure temp. for the powders cure time.


Hope that helps...

Mark

 

[joes_427_vette]

We just can't get john deere "color" anywhere but from Deere paint, from my experience. That is if you want to match the real JD color.

I don't believe they have patient rights on the green color for paint. It can be bought from various paint manufacturers. I just bought a quart of Rustoleum for a fel I built. Matched the tractor very well.

 

[Ford tractor]

Urethane epoxy paint with a hardener will be the most durable. Dupont Imron was one of the first. Just remember that the iso-cyanate hardener will also coat the insides of your lungs blocking their ability to accept oxygen. There is no way to "cure" your lungs once they are coated.

Standard masks DON'T block the iso's. Only supplied air respirators should be used.

 

[ray66v]

Standard masks DON'T block the iso's.

Standard dust masks don't protect you from iso's. But a charcoal respirator can. It has to be used, and stored properly. It does not have to be an air supplied unit.

It is complicated.

I undergo routine testing to determine the appropriate amount of exposure. This assures that my respirator is adequately protecting me. I get 25 hrs. total of use out of a disposable respirator, in up to a 7-10 day period. Then it gets changed. That falls well within the safety margins for the unit I use. That is also using it in a downdraft booth, which does a very good job of removing the spray.

Rest assured if you buy a disposable respirator, or new cartridges for a reusable one, It is very capable of protecting your lungs, for one project. It has to fit properly, and be kept in a sealed container when not being used. Once it has been used, the materials in the filters start to degrade, and in a matter of time, it is no good.

There is also a lot more to protecting yourself than a respirator. Not going to write a book here.

This stuff effects everyone differently, some get lots of exposure, and never have any reaction, and some rare cases can't even walk in the building it was used in, the next day, without a reaction requiring a trip to the ER.

I have always taken reasonable precautions, and have used it for decades without any effects. But, I have also seen dozens use it carelessly with no ill effect. I only know of one case of someone actually having harmed himself, that came after continually using it without any protection at all.

 

[o2batsea]

Triple thumbs up to POR 15 paints. Not the rust encapsulating paint so much, but their "hard nose" paint which is a two part cyanoacrylate (spelling) which comes in a wide array of colors. I also like very much their engine enamel.
Another single part urethane that is equally bash resistant is Durabak available in non skid and smooth. Insane expensive.

 

[whitedogone]

Triple thumbs up to POR 15 paints. Not the rust encapsulating paint so much, but their "hard nose" paint which is a two part cyanoacrylate (spelling) which comes in a wide array of colors. I also like very much their engine enamel.

DO they have JD green?

 

[Scooby074]

DO they have JD green?

ill throw in another vote for POR. Ive had great luck with their products.

In the hardnose paints, they have a "light green" which looks pretty close to JD green. Perhaps an email to the company could confirm that.
HARDNOSE PAINT-POR-15 Inc.

 

[forgeblast]

what about "painting" it in bed liner.