TODAY'S GUN TIME

[scootr]

I've been down the holster rabbit hole recently. For me at the top for the money, quality, comfort and fit is BEAR ARMZ TACTICAL on Amazon.

 

[Joel/ak]

Question on the uscca. Are they like NRA? Take your monthly dues and still hit you up for money?

Or actually a good thing.

 

[GeneV]

Question on the uscca. Are they like NRA? Take your monthly dues and still hit you up for money?

Or actually a good thing.

You know what, I took a deep dive into all them CC insurance companies, and I did NOT select those guys. They're a big name, but there's some shady stuff with them...google is your friend. Personally, I got CCW Safe.

 

[scootr]

I've been down the holster rabbit hole recently. For me at the top for the money, quality, comfort and fit is BEAR ARMZ TACTICAL on Amazon.

Today I received the Vedder P365 IWB holster. Initially I found it to be a good solid fit with adjustable snug retention. Then I added the wedge. That's a game changer in terms of comfort and concealment. I have a new favorite holster. And yeah it costs too much but pay once wear it forever...

 

[HAR]

What’s “amazing” and “white tail contender” equal in inches?

Hi once again, and as usual, a bit late to the party.

sea2summit and shooterdon:

I had not been on this thread for some time, and just got to look at a few replies to my post about Ruger American and Savage Axis rifles.

First, let me explain that I am no stranger to either long range shots nor accuracy. I shot an M14-NM on our State Rifle Team for 13 years, mostly on 600 yd ranges, and at the Camp Perry National Matches. For those unaware, the M14 is an iron sight gun....no scope allowed! I once had the opportunity to shoot it on the 1000 yd range. Talk about threading the needle!

As for "amazing", I think any gun that is taken straight out of the box and that will put a shot where you aim it fits that bill pretty close. Both Savage Axis rifles, with factory scopes and no adjustments, put shots on target at 100 yds. After minor adjustments, both were placing 1MOA shots. The Ruger American's, both needed scopes to be mounted. Both required first install sighting and adjustments, however, using a method I picked up while on the rifle team, we did not waste ammunition during the sight in process. Each of these rifles were placing 1MOA shots after less than 10 shots.

As for "white tail contenders", I should explain that VT has a few trees. In fact, the USDA shows that nearly 75% of VT is forested. While there are a few farm fields where long range shots are possible, most hunters here are lucky to have a shot at 100 yds. Here, a well placed shot, with a 1MOA rifle, will take most deer out to 300 yards.

 

[fatjay]

This kid gets it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1778458453989584930

 

[paulsharvey]

Everyone throws around the term 1 MOA rifle, and I think 90% of people don't either understand that, Or don't want to be honest. Sure, 1 MOA, with a specific brand/SKU of factory ammo is doable (less common than advertised), but is that what you are hunting with? I have 1 rifle that can pretty routinely turn out sub MOA groups, off the bench, with bipod and rear bags, 5 round groups. It's a 223 bolt gun, and with the Right load, right day, you can shoot between 0.4-0.8" with 40gr Vmax projectiles and H335; but I've never seen a gun that will shoot repetitive 0.75" groups with a Wide variety of Factory ammo, and rarely even 1.5" groups with factory hunting ammo.

Dad's Rem 721 in 270Win; shoots about 3.5" with everything I've handloaded, from 110gr speer to 145 ELDX (maybe it's a 140?), But it shoots about 2.75" with the cheap Remingtom 140gr Corelock. However, it's killed more deer, between dad, me, son, ect than most guns have seen. In a tree stand, or on the ground, 99% of Shooters aren't able to hold 2 MOA in field conditions, and often, it's more like 6-8 MOA...

Youtube/gunmags/mallninjas all have people convinced you need a 1 MOA or better gun to do anything, and that's far from truth.

 

[paulsharvey]

If a factory gun can shoot several types of factory ammo, specific to your task. at 1.5" 5 round group (not cherry picking, calling flyers, ect), that is a Great shooting gun. If that same gun can shoot 2.5" groups, repeatedly, with factory ammo (specific to task), that's 100% a whitetail rifle.


Really wish there was a way to do a pole on here; Longest shot to take live game;
under 50y
50-100y (about 88 yards or so, is my longest on live game)
100-200
200-300
300+

Even the guys outwest probably aren't shooting deer at 600y. or maybe they are?

 

[shooterdon]

Paul, there is a lot of BS from a lot of people. They talk about the "wallet group" they shot once. Some even resort to 3 shot groups so they can have bragging rights.

The last gun I wrung out was a higher end PCP air rifle and I analyzed 213 five shot groups. Average was .76" at 50 yards with a "wallet group" of .20". 34 groups were under 1/2", and 25 over 1".

I was captain of the college rifle team, have competed in a number of shooting disciplines and been "around the block". IMO most people are not capable of making a 400 yard shot on deer. Their guns and ammunition are not good enough, and they do not have the skill or knowledge to make the shot even from a bench rest. A 20 mph wind will blow the shot out of the kill zone at 400 yards. Heck most have no idea what hold over is needed.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I've been a handloader since 1975. But I didn't really get truly serious about my handloading work until I starting shooting competitive rifle matches in the early 80's. Loaded my own rifle and pistol ammo in everything except rimfire (obviously). Most of my firearms have never had a "factory" round fired down the barrel. I enjoy the "puzzle" of getting each new (at time of acquire) firearm to shooting to it's absolute best performance possible. The load development aspect of handloading is the most interesting to me. Once that "load" for that specific firearm is developed, it is kept (I have a notebook on my bench). I don't go on with any other load for that gun (typically speaking rifles here, not pistols). And I put up a stock of components for that specific recipe. I have some recipes that I have been shooting for decades.

My criteria for "an accurate load" varies depending on what the individual intended purpose for the rifle is. If it's a "big game" rifle, I like to see 3 shots into 1.5" at 100 yards as a minimum standard (this is all from the bench, btw). Now if I can get better than that, more power to it and I'll take it. But that is my "minimum", and if I can't get that, I keep working on the development. It's very rare to find a hunting rifle that can't be made to shoot to this accuracy standard. Sometimes it takes many different recipe attempts, and sometimes it falls together relatively easily.

For a "varmint" rifle, I like to see 5 shots into 1" at 100 yards. Again, if I can get more (more than 5 shots, tighter than 1"), then that's all good bonus accuracy.

For a "match" rifle or a "prairie dog" rifle (they are interchangeable in my loading practice), I want 5 shots into the same hole (or at least all touching if PD gun) at 100 yards, and I want 25 shot strings of under 1" at 100 yards. Then I will take that same load out to 500 yards (or 600 for match) and it needs to stay well under "moa" at 600 yards. If it will do that, and it's final "purpose" is 1000 yards, then I shoot it at 1000 with the same expectation (stays well under moa).

I have very rarely in my life seen any rifle shoot any factory ammo worth a crap (as per above standards). I'm talking about witnessed with my own eyes, not read about in some gun magazine "fluff piece". There have been some surprising exceptions, (my buddy's stock dual port "match" Savage in 223 shot a true one hole group of 5 shots at 100 yards with Ultramax "remanufactured" 68 gr hp "match" ammo - made me sick to see it, told him to buy a case of that stuff and forget about load development). I have been brought a few real turd rifles that their owner couldn't get to group worth crap with factory ammo and I've been able to develop an acceptable (to my terms above) load for them.

I've had a few turds myself that consumed many different recipe attempts with dismal results until finding that "one" magic sweet spot load that just brought it all together. I've only ever had a couple (6.8 spc and a 17 Rem) that I gave up on and sold (Contender barrels). I also have one rifle (Win m 70 in 30-06) with a heavily pitted barrel that won't do 3 moa with anything. It will get a new barrel eventually and become a 338-06 AI one of these days.

All this is shot from a sturdy bench with sturdy (heavy) rest and rear bags. Obviously once you're in the hunting fields you don't have the bench with you. But for load development you have to take the human (shooter) completely out of the picture. If you don't, you're wasting your time and your money. You're only testing LOADS at this point, not shooters. Field shooting practice comes after finding "The Load".