TODAY'S GUN TIME

[FriendwithTractor]

I enjoy my .17HMR, considering my .22LR is on permanent loan to my friend's veteran father.

.17HMR does get pushed around a lot by wind, but I've found that when it does hit, it doesn't over-penetrate and doesn't make an absolute mess, just scoop the critter up and into the hole it goes. I use a 6.5 Creedmore for longer ranges.

Say what you will about the Creedmore (Fad cartridge, light-weight) but out of my rifle, I love it for 'yotes and groundhogs at range. Hornady makes some amazing varmint loads and I look forward to loading them myself at some point.

 

[paulsharvey]

I enjoy my .17HMR, considering my .22LR is on permanent loan to my friend's veteran father.

.17HMR does get pushed around a lot by wind, but I've found that when it does hit, it doesn't over-penetrate and doesn't make an absolute mess, just scoop the critter up and into the hole it goes. I use a 6.5 Creedmore for longer ranges.

Say what you will about the Creedmore (Fad cartridge, light-weight) but out of my rifle, I love it for 'yotes and groundhogs at range. Hornady makes some amazing varmint loads and I look forward to loading them myself at some point.

I dont dislike the 6.5 Creed, and actually think it's a pretty good round; I just have come around to the point of preferring 308, for price, availability, huge number (and price) of projectiles. I dont think I have ever shot anything living with one, but I don't question it's ability. Now, if I already had a Creed, I'm not convinced I would sell it to buy a 308 or vice versa.

 

[shooterdon]

I talked a buddy out of getting a 6.5 CM. He had read too many gun rags. He already had a .270 and unless you are a very good long range shooter, there is no practical difference between them.

He admitted he wanted to shoot groups as well as my .308 but I was honest with him. He flinches, he does not shoot very much, and he is using factory ammunition. I do not flinch, have shot competitively and reload rounds that suit my gun. He cannot buy talent and experience. But so many want instant gratification.

I offered to shoot his .270 and work up some handloads if the factory ammunition was not working well. He declined. I offered to let him shoot my .308...he declined that too. He wanted to avoid reality.

He razes me endlessly. He is a much better hunter than I am and is more successful at deer camp. I wish I could hunt like him, and he wishes he could shoot like I can.

But i am not into hunting. If it wasn't for the comradery of camp, I doubt I would care about going deer hunting. In fact, I am thinking about not deer hunting at all going forward.

 

[FriendwithTractor]

That's fair, I have a .308 as well. It is a can't beat round for availability, price and sheer variety. It's been a staple for years for a reason. Don't think anything will dethrone it anytime soon.

I rarely get out for deer season, but maintain my collection mainly for varmints, coyotes and collectability.

 

[sea2summit]

That's fair, I have a .308 as well. It is a can't beat round for availability, price and sheer variety. It's been a staple for years for a reason. Don't think anything will dethrone it anytime soon.

I rarely get out for deer season, but maintain my collection mainly for varmints, coyotes and collectability.

I think the price of lead, or lead alternative, is going to be it’s eventual demise. 115-130 grn pills for 6.5 or 85-120 for a 6 will be a lot cheaper soon than 150-180 .30 for essentially the same terminal performance.

But the 308 is a workhorse, so we’ll see.

 

[the old grind]

Zinc has a very high surface tension and the slightest amount of it in the lead pot won't allow molds to fill out tidily. We've had zinc airgun pellets for some time. (light & fast but they ricochet much)

Forming zinc bullets won't be easy with casting unlikely w/o MIM. Swaging is out as zinc lacks malleability. I believe we'll see a lot more sintered metal pills than of zinc in any form. We'll see someday.

 

[CalG]

Did you ever consider firing a cannon?

"Both Excalibur and PGK provide unprecedented accuracy. An unguided shell will normally land within 267 meters of where it is aimed at maximum howitzer range (18 kilometers). The original Excalibur shell was built to always land within 10 meters of the target and subsequent upgrades have reduced that to about two meters. But PGK was a lot cheaper, got to be nearly as accurate as the early Excalibur and turned any unguided shell into a GPS guided one."

hmm 2 meters group at 18,000 meters range.

Some how ""one hole" at 100 meters seems less .....

 

[sea2summit]

Did you ever consider firing a cannon?

"Both Excalibur and PGK provide unprecedented accuracy. An unguided shell will normally land within 267 meters of where it is aimed at maximum howitzer range (18 kilometers). The original Excalibur shell was built to always land within 10 meters of the target and subsequent upgrades have reduced that to about two meters. But PGK was a lot cheaper, got to be nearly as accurate as the early Excalibur and turned any unguided shell into a GPS guided one."

hmm 2 meters group at 18,000 meters range.

Some how ""one hole" at 100 meters seems less .....

Well, when the round steers itself it’s sort of cheating

 

[shooterdon]

I think the price of lead, or lead alternative, is going to be it’s eventual demise. 115-130 grn pills for 6.5 or 85-120 for a 6 will be a lot cheaper soon than 150-180 .30 for essentially the same terminal performance.

But the 308 is a workhorse, so we’ll see.

Not likely.

Lead is about $1.25/lb. Saving 50 gr of lead will save $.18 per box of 20.

Even if lead, or is substitute, cost 4 times as much, it will impact cost per box by $.75. Not much on a $25-30 box of ammunition.

Brass is the costly part of a cartridge. Anyone who reloads knows that. And that is why reloading is cost effective.

Look at primers. They have gone from $25/1000 to $100/1000. Now, I know that is not what manufactures pay for their primers...we are just getting hosed. But my cost to reload has gone up $1.50 per box due to primers.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I think the price of lead, or lead alternative, is going to be it’s eventual demise. 115-130 grn pills for 6.5 or 85-120 for a 6 will be a lot cheaper soon than 150-180 .30 for essentially the same terminal performance.

But the 308 is a workhorse, so we’ll see.

I'm not sure that will ever be the case.

Modern manufacturing, the lead is the least expensive part. Setting up and changing over the machinery that produces the bullets is the most expensive. 30 caliber bullets have always been more popular in the market (at least in the US). So it costs more money to the manufacturer to switch over to produce the smaller runs of less popular calibers. Once they do switch it over, the run they make is smaller, before they again have to switch it over to something else. Where as if they can just let 'er rip, and keep making the same product, then the machinery just sings away with little to no down time.

It has always been this way in automated or semi automated manufacturing.