Today's cheap plumbing valves

[JDgreen227]

I have to run to Menards again this morning, the 3 year old $15 brass ball valve on our main water inlet has cracked and started to leak. Is it just my imagination, or are the plumbing valves you find today such poor quality they begin leaking after a few years? IN the 8 years since I redid our house with new copper plumbing, the majority of the stop and gate valves (those type with a hand wheel to close them) have started leaking and it's not worth the headache to try to rebuild the seals. Those were only about $5 or $6 new but I would have expected longer service life than 4 or 5 years.

Does anybody know a source for decent quality plumbing valves? Thanks.

 

[F1520]

In this part of the country it's pretty well known that the valves and faucets sold at the big home centers are junk even though they are the well-known name brands that you see in the magazines. These companies make a cheaper, lower quality line to the home center chains' specs and to meet their prices.

I first learned this from a friend who is a contractor. He said, "Go to Home Cheapo and pick out the kitchen faucet you want, but don't buy it there. Tell me which one it is and we'll get it from the plumbing supply house. It will cost a lot more, but that other stuff is junk and not even worth the trouble to install. It will fail within two years."

So I go to the plumbing supply for just about everything except for small fittings and lengths of copper and pex now. Everything costs more, but it's good quality stuff and it lasts.

I usually check here http://www.PexSupply.com before I go so that I can ask for stuff by its correct name. All the shelves are behind the counter at the plumbing supply house, so I can't wander up and down the aisles looking for the "thingy" I need. :laughing:

 

[AKwelder]

gate valves are inexpensive and you get what you pay for. When we do plumbing we use ball valves, and you get what you pay for then to. Some places don't sell "Full Port" valves. What that means is that the hole threw the ball is less than the pipe inside diameter.

FYI, some of the prices at major plumbing supply houses are actually cheaper that the box store. The box store spends A LOT of money to keep you thinking that they are the cheapest. At the same time they are charging the most they can.

Most allow you to get a cash only account and get the good guy price.

 

[AKwelder]

you might also check for water hammer, the thud in your lines can tear things up

 

[unbidden]

I have to run to Menards again this morning, the 3 year old $15 brass ball valve on our main water inlet has cracked and started to leak. Is it just my imagination, or are the plumbing valves you find today such poor quality they begin leaking after a few years? IN the 8 years since I redid our house with new copper plumbing, the majority of the stop and gate valves (those type with a hand wheel to close them) have started leaking and it's not worth the headache to try to rebuild the seals. Those were only about $5 or $6 new but I would have expected longer service life than 4 or 5 years.

Does anybody know a source for decent quality plumbing valves? Thanks.

I recently replaced 3 valves in a home just purchased this past Oct so I don't know how old the valves were. House was built in 1995. But the question that comes to mind is water quality, that could be causing an early retirement of the valves.

 

[freddyr]

alot of stuff is comng from china. buy from good plumbing house. There is a differance. always use ball valves with bleeders!

 

[JDgreen227]

alot of stuff is comng from china. buy from good plumbing house. There is a differance. always use ball valves with bleeders!

What I just replaced today was a Nibco brand 3/4 inch full port ball valve with a bleeder, cost about $11.99 on sale reg price was several bucks more. Our water quality is a lot better than some. And for what it's worth there are almost no major plumbing supply dealers in this area outside of the box stores or Carter Lumber.

 

[kenmac]

I don't know of any company that makes ball valves or gate valves here anymore. The ones I see come from you guessed it. China

 

[Luremaker]

I don't know of any company that makes ball valves or gate valves here anymore. The ones I see come from you guessed it. China

If I go into the local Home Depot store all the ball valves are made in China. The last time I ordered from HD Direct the ball valves were Canada made and cost less.

 

[Mounted Madness]

Our house is 3 years old. The plumber was called back to replace 2 outside taps because they leaked after the first winter. He stated the obvious, that the taps were made in China and they are junk. He's a sub-contractor and the contractor pretty much prescribes what he can spend on hardware. He buys what is allowed and installs it. Probably costs him more in time and effort to replace the 2-5% that fail.

Best part with Chinese products, it's not worth the shipping to send it back to China to get them to replace it. Who wins there? It isn't us, but hey, there was $20 saved in the build of our house and the faulty taps were sent to the metal recycling plant.

 

[simonds]

I have done many heat and plumbing jobs. I have always tried to buy the "Watts" brand valves and accs. Never had a problem with any of them. Be very carefull buying from the big box stores. Many products may look the same but they are not, for quality. They sell Cub Cadet and John Deere riding mowers at the big box stores around here. BUT are they the same ones with the same parts that you buy at the tractor dealers???

 

[Kays Supply]

I have battled this problem for years. The cause in my area is dezincafication. That is the zinc in the brass is leached out of the fitting by the water. The cheap valves are yellow brass. The old yellow brass had more zinc and lasted longer. The solution, is to install red brass also called bronze valves and fittings. That is the same material your water meters and city installed fittings are made of that last life times. Expect to pay $25 to $30 for a bronze 3/4" full port ball valve. That is the only solution other than going to plastic, which I do not consider an option. There may be a system that treats the water but it would be $1000s and require a lot of maintenance.

 

[V1Rotate]

I have a ball valve that doesn't work. My dad recently passed away and I am taking care of his house which is now empty, I went to shut off the main water valve and nothing happend. The handle on the valve rotated normally but when I opened a faucet, the water flowed like normal.

Anything I can do besides replace the valve?

 

[Chuck52]

Bought a freeze-proof sill cock last summer to replace one that was probably fifty years old. Had I been able to take the old one apart I would have just replaced the seal in it, but it was pretty well frozen and I goobered it up pretty good trying to get it apart. I bought a Chinese replacement at Menards and will be replacing it again when the weather warms up. It started leaking about five months after I installed it. At least I get to practice my soldering skills.

Chuck

 

[JDgreen227]

I have a ball valve that doesn't work. My dad recently passed away and I am taking care of his house which is now empty, I went to shut off the main water valve and nothing happend. The handle on the valve rotated normally but when I opened a faucet, the water flowed like normal.

Anything I can do besides replace the valve?

There is still water pressure in the plumbing system downstream of the valve after it is closed, so you will continue to get flow from a faucet until the pressure is gone. I have never known a ball valve to malfunction in the way you describe...check to see if the faucet finally sputters dry after a few seconds of your opening it --after closing the ball valve.

If the valve is defective, the only way to properly replace it is to first shut off the well (assuming you use a well) or have the public utility shut off the water valve underground outside.

 

[JDgreen227]

Bought a freeze-proof sill cock last summer to replace one that was probably fifty years old. Had I been able to take the old one apart I would have just replaced the seal in it, but it was pretty well frozen and I goobered it up pretty good trying to get it apart. I bought a Chinese replacement at Menards and will be replacing it again when the weather warms up. It started leaking about five months after I installed it. At least I get to practice my soldering skills.

Chuck

"Goobered it up"...never heard that term before...good one !! :laughing:

 

[Kays Supply]

I have had the stem break on ball valves. It is rare, but it happens. Most of the time it is a cheap valve that hasn't been used for several years. It is much more common with gate valves. The stem threads go bad and when you tighten it to turn it off, the threads break and it won't raise back up. You then are shut off and can't turn the water back on.

 

[kidstrustfund]

I plumbed professionally for over 20 years. Get high quality valves. Your water quality sounds like it needs attention. If you clean up blue stains from your fixtures that means you have low ph. The blue is your copper plumbing system. If you have red stains on your fixtures you have an iron problem. that will corrode your valve and every time you go to use it grinding will distroy the valve. I have bought cheep mail order valves before that never shut off the water or leaked outside the valve right out of the box. The disadvantage you have from your plumber is your plumber will stop using poor quality valves that cause him problems. You are only working with a few valves and need to find out which brands/ models to stay away from. I do a lot work in different fields that I have no experience in. One trick I use when doing something I have no experience doing is to imitate the pro's. I use the same materials, patterns, methods, ect. Go to a plumbing supply and ask your counter person for a good quality valve. Check the water quality. Maintain your water treatment equipment. Take the time to plan your job by asking questions and researching your job on the interweb. Just yesterday I tried repairing my welder. I did not search the web for repair instructions. I ended up taking more things apart then I had to breaking a few other things in the process. If I took a hour researching the repair I would have spent 1/2 the time with the repair. BTW it's still not fixed. But i was able to dismantle a volvo 5 cylinder motor to replace the entire pvc system with out any hitches cause I did my homework before I started the job. Took only 9 hrs. Good luck Tom

 

[JRobyn]

I'm hoping that all the Conbraco "Pipemaster" valves that I just installed in the new house hold up! In the event that the valve body fails in any way, I like the fact that they are o-ring flanged at each end so that the body can be easily replaced. But they are still made in China.

 

[clemsonfor]

OK now yall got me where i cant sleep tonight probably, thinking about all the faucet and all the lines and valves i have put in the two homes i have, all of whick came from lowes or HD. At least the farm property i turn the water off since it may be months between visits and i dont want to come in to a water logged house just for that very reason. But here at my house if a line fails or a cutoff fails and its 4 hours or more till i get home, thats a long time!!