Today sucked

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

Well after yesterdays welding went so well. (perfect smooth 7018 beads, slag falling off on its own..) I decided to try and get some nice t-welds done for some pictures. That didnt happen. Each time I layed a bead on a flat plate, it was perfect. Each time I tried to do a joint, it sucked. It had the worst arc blow I have ever seen, sometimes just the start of the weld, sometimes the whole way. I just couldnt make a joint. I tried many differnt settings, differnt arc force, 120-135 amps, nothing helped. It seemed even worse when I had it clamped in my vise, so I have a feeling its magnetic

. But even on the table, I had the same issue. Also, while dropping the stub out, I some how managed to flash myself, so now my eyes are burning

Then I decided I just wanted to have one go well before I went in, so I tried some 6013. That was ****. They wouldnt stay lit. I tried arc force from 0-10, and amperage from the recomended 70, to a blazing 130. (3/32 rod) Even with almost 2x the recomended amperage, and arc force cranked up all the way, it wouldnt stay lit. It would weld 1/2 and inch then stick, and had horrible arc blow. I almost pitched the whole box in the trash. Hopefuly things will start going as well as yesterday again, because this sucked. I can see I am starting ranting and rambling, so I think I will stop my self here. Any tips for fix these issues?

greasemonkeyok · May 16, 2012

Just a wild guess, are you having a problem with your ground connection?

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

greasemonkeyok said:
Just a wild guess, are you having a problem with your ground connection?

I dont think so, I had the copper of the ground clamp on bare steel on the part I was welding.

Shield Arc · May 16, 2012

Some things to try, place your ground clamp at one end of your plates, and weld towards the ground clamp. If that doesn't work try heating your plates to a cherry red color, and let them cool. If you do not have a torch, break your plates apart, lay them on a table / floor and smack them with a sledge hammer.

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

Shield Arc said:
Some things to try, place your ground clamp at one end of your plates, and weld towards the ground clamp. If that doesn't work try heating your plates to a cherry red color, and let them cool. If you do not have a torch, break your plates apart, lay them on a table / floor and smack them with a sledge hammer.

You know, now that you mention it the arc blow was a lot better when I tried welding the other way. When I get the O/A tanks filled, I will have to try heating it up. Until then, I have a few big hammers.

Shield Arc · May 16, 2012

I spent most of my life fighting arc blow. Generally moving the ground clamp, or wrapping the ground lead around the material will work. Next best thing is heat to cherry red. If you use the hammer trick, don't be gentle, really smack them hard! Or break out that AC welder, and run a small bead with 6011.

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

If I keep having the issue, I will have to try the tomb stone. I just read a good article from lincoln, that talked about arc blow. It seems I had back blow. Tomorrow (or later tonight) I will try putting the ground clamp on the other end. The other odd part was if I weld a t joint, it has the arc blow, but if I lay a bead on the plate right next to the joint, it is fine. Does that make any sense?

Shield Arc · May 16, 2012

deereman75 said:
The other odd part was if I weld a t joint, it has the arc blow, but if I lay a bead on the plate right next to the joint, it is fine. Does that make any sense?

No it doesn't! If you were welding vertical up on your fillets, I've seen arc blow a lot of times in the last inch or so. Sometimes you can counter it with rod angle, other times you need to place the ground clamp at the top of the plates, and weld towards the ground clamp. But not being there it is really hard for me to understand exactly what is going on.

blunosr · May 16, 2012

Are you running DC? Maybe try reversing the polarity...

Just guessing...

Good luck with it.

Troy

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

blunosr said:
Are you running DC? Maybe try reversing the polarity...

Just guessing...

Good luck with it.

Troy

Nah I am running dcep. I checked in my pocket ref, and it seems that the issue with 6013 could be that it runs best on dcen.

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

Shield Arc said:
No it doesn't! If you were welding vertical up on your fillets, I've seen arc blow a lot of times in the last inch or so. Sometimes you can counter it with rod angle, other times you need to place the ground clamp at the top of the plates, and weld towards the ground clamp. But not being there it is really hard for me to understand exactly what is going on.

Well I am going to be making some videos for longevity. If this is still happening, you will be able to see it. I will try moving the ground clamp, then beating the snot out of it. If that doesnt work, then I will try the tombstone, to see if that works.

ChuckE2009 · May 16, 2012

Dont worry bud, we all have days like that. Just stick with it (pun intended) and you'll be good...

About your ground... What is your ground clamp like? Literally every stock clamp I've seen... Well... Sucks!!

If you go to HF or TSC, you can get a sweet ground clamp for $10 to $20. I put a TSC clamp on my Hobart 187 and it was like using another machine. Its a simple upgrade that I highly recommend.

I like the Tweco-style clamps myself, buy whats important is the contact area. How much is there? Those stock clamps usually just have like 8 little points, but a good beefy clamp will have atleast a couple square inches of contact space. It makes a huge difference. Good luck

deereman75 · May 16, 2012

ChuckE2009 said:
Dont worry bud, we all have days like that. Just stick with it (pun intended) and you'll be good...

About your ground... What is your ground clamp like? Literally every stock clamp I've seen... Well... Sucks!!

If you go to HF or TSC, you can get a sweet ground clamp for $10 to $20. I put a TSC clamp on my Hobart 187 and it was like using another machine. Its a simple upgrade that I highly recommend.

I like the Tweco-style clamps myself, buy whats important is the contact area. How much is there? Those stock clamps usually just have like 8 little points, but a good beefy clamp will have atleast a couple square inches of contact space. It makes a huge difference. Good luck

This one isnt too bad, it has some copper jaws. I will be going to air liquide in a few weeks, and I think I will pick up a tweco clamp there. I wish we had hf and tsc here. The closest thing is princess auto, and thats about an hour away, and they dont have those clamps. They are a lot like harbor freight, with a lot of high end name brand stuff, along with the chinese stuff. There prices are higher though. I will be back out there tomorrow, seeing if I can get it to work.

Ken45101 · May 17, 2012

Okay, I have to ask, what does beating on the metal accomplish? (Besides being a vent for one's frustrations?)

deereman75 · May 17, 2012

Ken45101 said:
Okay, I have to ask, what does beating on the metal accomplish? (Besides being a vent for one's frustrations?)

I hear that strong impact can cause or disipate magnitism. For example, if you point an iron bar north-south, and beat it with a hammer, it will become a magnet. Made to sense to me, but I hear it is true.

weldermike · May 17, 2012

Deerman, whats up bud! Have you tried different rod angles it will help sometimes, or is it blowin like an animal?

Shield Arc · May 17, 2012

Ken45101 said:
Okay, I have to ask, what does beating on the metal accomplish? (Besides being a vent for one's frustrations?)

I didn't know there was a technical reason for it! I beat on anything or anybody that makes me mad or I don't understand.

undercut · May 17, 2012

Ken45101 said:
Okay, I have to ask, what does beating on the metal accomplish? (Besides being a vent for one's frustrations?)

Bear with me with the following link. It seems it is directed more to schoolchildren but it walks through the rationale so much better than some of the other links I could find.

Demagnetize: Does Hitting a Magnet Weaken Its Magnetic Strength? | Education.com

spo307 · May 17, 2012

Shield Arc said:
No it doesn't! If you were welding vertical up on your fillets, I've seen arc blow a lot of times in the last inch or so. Sometimes you can counter it with rod angle, other times you need to place the ground clamp at the top of the plates, and weld towards the ground clamp. But not being there it is really hard for me to understand exactly what is going on.

ditto

Ken45101 · May 17, 2012

undercut said:
Bear with me with the following link. It seems it is directed more to schoolchildren but it walks through the rationale so much better than some of the other links I could find.

Demagnetize: Does Hitting a Magnet Weaken Its Magnetic Strength? | Education.com

Okay, thanks for the link. That explains beating vs. magnetism.

But......what's that have to do with weldability?

Ken