tnt for 2305

[gasbag]

I am thinking of trying to add tnt to my 2305, I have the 260 bh so i have power beyond already. I need to know if anyone has successfully installed tnt, parts used and their placement as space is tight. thanks Mark

 

[yelbike]

You can easily use tnt if you remove the loader and use the those outlets to control the tnt. The power beyond doesnt help alot for tnt.

 

[XSKIER]

You could replace the three point control lever with a grip that contains two two way switches. Those could be wired to a quick disconnect. You could add a two spool electro-hydraulic valve bank that could quick connect to your power beyond, and control switches. You could then keep the valve and TNT cylinders off the tractor when the bh is in use. This setup would be very functional, and convenient! It could cost about two Gs though. I would hate to have to give up my FEL in order TNT my box blade.

 

[HunterWare]

I'm in the process of figuring the parts (slowly), but I believe you can just get the Deere QDs and then plumb them with hose to a small 2 valve (setup OC). You run the return back into the PB loop (just like the backhoe does), and put 4 QDs right off the valve (or run hoses from it, your choice). I'm going to setup the valve attachment with something clamping or bolting with wingnuts to right side of the ROPS. My plan is to remove it when I'm running the BH, or when I'm not using a grapple or TnT. Since everything besides the valve attachment is QDs, it really shouldn't add much to to the already existing switchover of removing stuff for mowing or changing into backhoe mode.

In a perfect world the PB would have three lines, but none of the small JD units have that... And my understanding is this setup has worked well for plenty, and works well for the 260BH.

 

[gasbag]

Thanks everyone for your response and ideas, gives me something to think about. If anyone comes up with any more ideas please post. thanks Mark

 

[MR_NC]

To the OP, thank you!
I have been the beneficiary of many great ideas and inspiration from the members of this site over the last few years. Seems I never have much to "contribute", this feels like an opportunity so here goes.

What I remember,
Reading something to this effect prior to getting started (another member, can't remember exactly who).
"You will spend twice as much as you think, it will be twice the PITA, but you will not regret it"
Or something to that effect....
That person was RIGHT ON!

If you decide to do this, I can have my hydraulics guy generate a BOM from what bought when I did this. I will get that to you if you need / want it. Valve, lines, fittings, etc type stuff.

I have 2305 TLB + CCM TNT.
Very happy camper.

I made the following consessions with my install:

1. The 3PNT operation handle hits the valve body at full up stroke. This doesn't bother me because there is never an operation time where the handle is in that position constantly. It DOES NOT interfere with anything in the handle neutral position.

2. I use the rubber "mat" cover because this assembly gets HOT when mowing and under extended high RPM operation.

3. The BH connection moved to the valve from the power beyond factory location. I couldn't find a way to be happy with plumping not doing that.

4. My quick hitch had to be "modified" for the plumbing that exists on the cylinder itself.

5. My tractor had to be "modified" for the worst case travel range of the TNT and 3PNT.

CCM:
Great folks, quality stuff, quickly shipped, works as expected.

I used the PRNICE MB21BB5C1 valve.
Seemed pretty well sized to what little this tractor offers in HYD throughput.

This picture sort of shows things from a stand off view. The seat swivels fine (I do have the 2nd gen seat swivel) I am not crowded by the valve assembly (I am just under 6ft @ 165-170 lbs).


In this picture you can see the valve doesn't crowd the seat in any terrible way.



This picture shows the issue I had with regards to the full range of operation. The tractor fender "skirt" needed trimmed to account for the complete travel of the TNT. I clamped a board behind the skirt and used a hole saw piloted into the board in order to make the round cut and not "hack" the tractor up doing it. It is also worth noting the hose routing in this view. I tried several things and this seems to have worked the best long term. Cylinder MUST be upside down or you will crash the pilot check valve stuff into the fender skirt. As it stands I "bend" the fender skirt just a bit at worst case travel for the 3PNT and TNT.



This picture shows the plumbing from a different direction. From this picture and the last you should be able to tell how I mapped things in with the power beyond. Note my backhoe connection is now the BIG connector on the valve assembly. That "loop" unplugs and the backhoe goes in-line. I flipped the couplers around on the BH to get a MALE connector on the top of the valve. I didn't want a female connector peeing on my tractor with every connect - disconnect operation. I retained the quick connect stuff for the factory power beyond, it's just swapped around a bit to get the plumbing I wanted.



Here we see the coupler arrangement I use on the BH. I have extended one hose as required to reach the top of the valve. You can see this and the directional nature of the quick couplers in the picture. The direction of the couplers is so the hoses are not up by butt when I operate the BH.



This picture shows where and how I cut my quick hitch to deal with the plumbing on the cylinder for the travel range.



This is probably the best picture I can give (without removal) of the bracket I fabricated for the valve.



Note the loop you see here in this picture is playing the part of the factory power beyond loop when the BH is not installed.



I think that about covers it. I opted for the 2X valve so I can drive some loader side stuff (thinking grapple or "other") and / or drive something HYD AND use the TNT.

Hope you get / got some value out of this information. It would be nice to have given something back for all the great inspiration and ideas this site has given me.

Also,
These 2 pictures are the best I can show of the resulting tilt / travel range.



and down



These pictures show the clearance problems I encountered.





Best regards,
Sean

 

[gasbag]

To MR_NC thank you for taking the time to share your very excellent installation, it looks like you have it figured out. I would like to duplicate your success and benefit from your experience. I think the first step is to ask you for the list of components and go from there. Although I have no experience with hydraulics I can turn a wrench and I think it will be fun. Thanks again, Mark

 

[kevinwak]

I added top n tilt to my 2520 last winter. Since you have the power beyond, which I didn't have, half the work is done for you. I attached a couple photos of where I attached my valve. I believe it is a prince 2 spool open center SV series valve. You can see in the pics how I bent the control handles. I really like the location as it doesn't interfere with the cupholder or the 3pt control. You would just need to plumb the valve into your power beyond quick connects as you would your backhoe! When ordering the cylinders try and get them with side fittings for the top link, as mine with the top fittings had some clearance issues. I ordered the top n tilt cylinder kit from mtnviewranch. Just search him on here. Money well spent!

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[kevinwak]

.

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[MR_NC]

Parts and information list:

INFORMATION:
1. What I have going on here is a bit "off campus". Someone may not understand the plumbing, in the absence of HYD experience. Allow me to explain.

Lets go over the plumbing.
For explanation I will refer to pressure and flow as power?
1. I used a valve that can be configured for OPEN or CLOSED center. This means either the power flows thru the valve or stops at the valve (more or less). Because we want to operate the BH AND the VALVE a switchable valve turns out to be important.
2. In the configuration I use the valve is CLOSED CENTER! Now, before everyone freeks because the tractor needs OPEN center, we must think about what is going on here. Again, we want the VALVE AND the BH at the same time. This makes things a bit different than if we were just adding a valve without the BH.
3. The valve in question has the option (WHEN IN CLOSED OPERATION) to pass the power thru the valve and continue it on. That is EXACTLY what we are looking for in order to have the BH AND the valve at the same time option.
4. We CLOSE the valve (install the set screw inside to block off) in order to turn on this pass thru of the power?
5. In one of my previous pictures you can see the valve with a fitting connected to a port marked P. This is the power coming from the tractor side. Now, normally when the BH is not involved this power just flows thru the valve in a straight forward way. We need that power to be in the valve AND continue on to the BH. Regardless, make note the power is incoming from the tractor to the P port on the valve.
6. Because we have configured the valve CLOSED the port used to return the power to the tractor no longer works. This is sort of a problem, we have all this power from the tractor and it needs someplace to go. The outlet port on the valve no longer works.
7. Because we have a CLOSED valve, the extra power port is now enabled. This means that the power is now not going to the return port, it is going to the extra power outlet. This is the LOOP you see in the pictures. The side of the loop NOT having the quick disconnect is the side the power is coming from.
8. Now given #7 we can possibly begin to see what is going on here. We see that I have a T fitting connected to the standard return port on the valve. However, I have previously stated this port is dead by configuring the valve to be CLOSED.
9. When we think about #8 we go WTF? The valve is closed why on earth did this ****** Sean plug fluid into it? Well, because I need something to hold things in place The default outlet port is being used to connect / hold other lines and fittings in place BUT IT IS NOT OPERATIONAL! Again, the VALVE IS CLOSED! Remember I said the power is now in the loop you see headed for the large quick disconnect that sits on top of the valve. This is due in part to the restrictions on space that exist with the swivel seat. We cant have a bunch of stuff extending out of the valve in the direction of the seat.
10. Now when we continue to look at the T connection we see the last outlet on the T we have NOT already discussed is directed back to the tractor (this is the power return).
11. The loop is now emulating the factory power beyond loop with nothing connected to it. This power needs a place to go when in operation (open center systems). This is why it plugs back into the T that is returning fluid to the tractor sump.
12. Now when the BH is required the loop is disconnected and the BH is connected to the fitting at the top of the T and the female quick disconnect shown on top of the valve in the pictures. Thus, when the BH is connected power flows thru the system just as if the valve was not there. HOWEVER, because the valve is inline it can use the power to do work at the same time the BH is in operation. Disconnecting the valve is not required. When the BH is not attached, the loop is simply connected to the top of the valve (drain / return) and we have an operational valve and no BH.

Again, the BIG thing/s to note here are:
1. THE VALVE IS IN CLOSED OPERATION!
2. THE VALVE RETURN PORT IS BLOCKED! This is why the T is REQUIRED! The T becomes the path for the power to return to the tractor.
3. The T is installed for the purpose of holding the return line to the valve and providing a place to put a quick connect for the BH return. There is no power flowing out the bottom connection of the T that is attached to the valve.

This picture helps illustrate the concept:


I can fill in more information about the setup as required. I do assure you it has been working just fine for over a year now.

Ok,
Parts list:
QTY is shown (?)
Numbers in [??] represent the fitting angle not the seal angle.

1. JD 2305 TLB (1)
2. PRINCE / Wolverine [ MB21BB5C1 ] valve. (1)

BH SIDE STUFF:
1. LINE 22 inch long 3/4 NPT MALE -> 1/2 NPT MALE (1)
2. 3/4 NPT MALE -> 1/2 NPT swivel [45deg] (1)
3. 1/2 FEMALE O-RING -> 3/4 NPT FEMALE (1)
4. 3/4 NPT FEMALE -> 1/2 MALE O-RING [90deg] (1)
5. 1/2 MALE O-RING -> 37deg MALE (factory BH connect) (1)

TRACTOR SIDE STUFF:
1. Caps for 1/4 quick disconnect (get from JD) (4)
2. 2 x 1/8 x 12 steel angle (bracket) TSC (1)
3. 1/4 FEMALE quick disconnects (TSC) (4)
4. 1/2 MALE O-RING -> 1/2 FEMALE NPT [90deg] (1)
5. 1/2 MALE NPT -> 1/2 FEMALE NPT swivel [45deg] (1)
6. LINE 20.5 inch long 1/2 NPT MALE -> 1/2 NPT FEMALE (1)
7. 1/2 NPT MALE -> 1/2 NPT FEMALE [90deg] (1)
8. 1/2 NPT MALE -> 37deg FEMALE swivel (1)
9. 1/2 37deg MALE -> 1/2 MALE O-RING (1)
10. BH size / Large FEMALE coupler (2)
11. 1/2 MALE O-RING -> 1/2 FEMALE swivel (1)
12. LINE 7.5 inch long 1/2 MALE NPT -> 1/2 MALE NPT (1)
13. 1/2 FEMALE NPT -> 3/4 FEMALE NPT swivel (1)
14. 1/2 FEMALE swivel 37deg -> 1/2 FEMALE swivel 37deg -> 3/4 NPT MALE T fitting. The 3/4 must be the MID T connection
15. 1/2 MALE O-RING -> 1/2 MALE 37deg (1)
16. 1/2 MALE 37deg -> 1/2 MALE O-RING [90deg] (1)
17. BH size / large MALE coupler (1)
18. LINE 26 inch long 1/2 MALE NPT -> 1/2 MALE NPT (1)
19. 1/2 MALE O-RING -> 1/2 FEMALE NPT [90deg] (1)
20. 1/2 NPT FEMALE -> 1/2 NPT FEMALE swivel (CCM link connection fittings). (2)
21. LINES 36 inch long 1/2 MALE NPT -> 1/2 MALE NPT (2)
22. 1/2 MALE O-RING -> 1/4 MALE 37deg [45deg] (4)
23. 1/4 NPT MALE -> 1/4 FEMALE 37deg swivel (4)
24. 1/2 NPT FEMALE NPT swivel -> 1/4 MALE 37deg (2)
25. 1/4 FEMALE swivel 37deg -> 1/4 MALE NPT [45deg] (2)
26. 1/4 MALE coupler (2)
27. LOCTITE 545 <- IMPORTANT!

Hit me up with any questions you have.
I had to do the parts list myself off the tractor. My guy at the HYD place went off and retired on me. The replacement is not "helpful"...

Some warning about cost, they are REALLY proud of this HYD "stuff". Nothing on that list (other than the caps) is less than 5 bucks. The valve set me back about 130, the top link 180ish (IIRC), the fittings and stuff were more than the valve and the top link together. There are several areas where a person could just use a line and not have quick disconnects in place. Mainly the power beyond connections to the valve. I elected to use / pay for the disconnects so I could very quickly isolate / remove the valve as desired. If something valve side gives up the ghost at a work-site I can be back digging in a very short time by unplugging the valve and swapping the quick connects on the BH. Money could be saved however if straight lines were used in place of all the quick connect stuff coming from the tractor power beyond.

A person doesn't have to swap the BH connectors. I did so to prevent the peeing that female connectors are good for from leaking all over the tractor. I can drain the fluid from the female connector when I connect the BH.

Best regards,
Sean