Tire studs - again.

[MiserableOldFart]

Hi all. There are a bunch of threads on this, but I think most of them are quite old, unless I missed one or ten, which is possible. Anyway, after thinking about it for two years or so, and looking at the prices out there and reading about people's experiences, I decided to try myself. In winter, my tractor doesn't get used for much of anything except snow removal. Most of that is pretty light duty, almost all the pushing I do is downhill and the rest is done with the blower. I have about a quarter mile of pretty rough dirt road to keep clear, though the last couple years we have not seen a lot of snow.

Anyway, since my usage is pretty light, barring a nasty winter, and the main problem I have is not pushing snow, but getting back up the hill once I get down to the bottom, and after communicating with tirechain.com and determining that my rear wheels don't have enough clearance for chains, I bought a bunch of Kold Kutter screw in studs. If I were doing any commercial work, I likely would have gotten the MaxiGrips, which are quite a bit more expensive, but surely made to last much longer. Anyway, I researched the actual designed tread depth of my tires at the Titan site, and then allowed for six years' wear (not much there, I don't think) and got the 1/2 inch studs, which I installed yesterday. I took a relatively conservative approach, putting 2 studs on each lug of my R4s in the rear, about 96 in total. I have chains on the front tires, and won't use the machine in 4 wheel drive unless and until we have either ice or snow below it. Probably those that have ag tires have a huge advantage with screw in studs because they can use longer ones. For motorcycles (the actual designed use of the Kold Kutters) they actually put a strip of some kind of rubberized material INSIDE the tire and screw long studs right through the tire. I guess the stuff they put inside seals up the air in the tire so it doesn't leak.

Anyway, I will be updating and reporting on the effectiveness of the studs as the winter wears on. I am very concerned, given the short length, that I might lose some of these, and that would not be a good thing for car tires in the future, so I'll especially be watching for that. The Kold Kutter instructional video mentions that they do not recommend using the studs in the same holes, which is probably not a very big deal for motorcycle riders - their tires don't last long, but for tractor uses who expect a decade, and hopefully much more, out of their tires, it's probably a serious concern. Perhaps the same holes can be reused if a little loctite is added. I didn't use it, though if I see any studs disappearing, I'll likely take the others back out and try it. Don't know how effective it would be on tires, and then there is also the danger that it might be too effective.

My tires are six years old now, and though I'm certainly taking a risk with the screws, it's not the same as if the tires were brand new. Anyway, I hope to report my successes or failures with these studs over the course of the winter.

One little tool that you might find comes in handy with this, and any other similar jobs is a magnetic wrist strap. Holds about a dozen screws securely at a time and prevents spills and the thrills of pickup..

 

[k0ua]

It will be interesting to see what you think of them.

 

[Bob77064]

Wonder how well they stay in, especially when the tires spin.

 

[rayclar]

Yes please keep us updated , as im in the same boat as you with no room for rear chains. ray

 

[art]

We started using them on some applications after we had good luck with them in the track systems for snow groomers. They have been good so far with about four years. We have had some loss but nominal compared to advantage of wide open travel on roads and other hard surfaces as well as soft going.

 

[MH8675309]

I just got chains for my JD 5205. It's a 2 wheel drive and I take out a round bale every week - down hill. Last week we got hammered with a huge snowstorm and I was sure glad I had chains. They made all the difference in the world. They weren't cheap though. They were almost $500 for the pair and that didn't include the shipping. Got them at tirechains.com

 

[MiserableOldFart]

OK, folks. I finally got some seat time over the past week or so with some serious snow. Used both the blower and the back blade, and I have mixed feelings about the studs. First off, when they say they don't help much for traction in the snow, they're probably right. Even on our dirt road with a nice firm packed base, it seems the tires spin pretty much just as easily. The studs just seem to kick out a little spot, and if it's warm enough, they develop a little hill of packed snow around themselves. With chains on the front it's hard to tell if they help at all, but with the front drive disengaged, the little tractor doesn't have much grip at all.

However, it does seem to me, and I can't guarantee this, but it feels that way to me, that they do add some lateral stability when using the back blade. I mostly use the back blade in forward gear to clean small amounts of snow, or the residue from the blower, which is set quite high to avoid the dirt road. It appears that the tractor has less tendency to fishtail away from the direction the blade is angled by the weight of the snow, which was very pronounced in the past. Could be that I've been working with drier, lighter snow, so I'm not 100% sure of this.

In both cases, using more studs might make a big difference, because I used only two studs in each cleat, which is much fewer than can be used if you maxed out the studs.

I have spun the tires plenty and I haven't seen any missing studs yet, though I haven't carefully checked every one, I do look often and have seen no empty places. When I remove them in a few weeks (positive thinking) I'll take a full inventory.

Haven't used the machine on any glare ice yet, so I can't really report on that.

Would love to put chains on the rears, but there isn't enough clearance without putting on wheel spacers which is another pretty big expense.

They do make low-clearance chains for cars, even "cable chains" that actually work quite well, except that they can't be repaired. We used them on mail trucks when I was working and though their traction is less than real chains, they helped a lot and can be driven at relatively high speeds on the roads, and on bare roads for a modest amount of time. Unfortunately, if there are cable chains that fit our rear tires, I wouldn't know how to find them because the tire sizes don't really appear to correspond between car/truck and tractor tires.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Well, a couple more small snow storms and I got more seat time. Yesterday when I looked at my tires, I found quite a few studs missing. I think some of the heavier pushing into snow banks with the loader to make little pockets for the back blade to dump some of its load caused more spinning than they could handle.

Will have to do a full inventory when I remove them, but if there are more than a few missing, I probably won't be using them next year. I'm not fond of getting a flat tire, or worse, having someone else get one and blaming it on me..

Might be in the market for a drag-able magnet come spring to try to recover what's out there.. :-(

On a positive note, the studs that are on the tire still seem to be quite sharp. There is wear but not enough to ruin them.

 

[bja105]

You have me thinking about studs, too. I have never seen studs not installed in a tire. How long are they? When one falls out of a tractor tire, is it long enough to pierce a car tire?

 

[MiserableOldFart]

They come in different lengths for different tires. There is a wide assortment of length of thread, so you have to know the tread depth of your tires, and account for wear. If you have Titan tires, they list all the tread depths on their site. Depending on the depth of tread/ thread length you choose, yes, they could puncture a car tire. Mine are 1/2 inch thread, so they might be able to. If you have ag tires, you'd likely be using longer thread studs. Then again, the longer the thread, the less likely to lose 'em, I would think. I also bought a few 3/8" to try on my Wheel Horse, but never installed them and the snow got too deep to use it anyway. 3/8" is the shortest, and I'm not totally sure they are short enough for that use. Will have to be very cautious about that.

These studs are much more aggressive than the ones found installed on car tires. Again, they are really made for motorcycles on ice, so if you have the funds you might be better off getting the ones that are carbide and made for tractors.

 

[jel1988]

Studs are used on higher speed applications like a car or truck. On a low speed application chains will give better performance and they won't wreck an expensive tractor tire.

 

[hhsco]

Can you flip your wheels to widen the rear stance of your tractor? That may help with clearance for chains. I'd kill for some six year old tires- my '78 JD 2040 has the original rears....and they actually still look and work pretty swell!

 

[MiserableOldFart]

I lost about 10 studs over the course of the winter. I would rate this as a fail, especially in view of the fact that the traction gains were minimal at best. If there was ice, it might have been different. Again, if you have ag tires, with much deeper tread, you can use longer ones that are probably less likely to pull out. Also, the more expensive carbide studs might well have some kind of improved design to the screws, though I doubt it. I also can't help thinking that the tiny holes left upon removing the studs will allow a small amount of air to get into the treads and hasten their decline over the years. I'll be sticking to just chains on the front tires as long as it works..

 

[MiserableOldFart]

hhscco, I Never doubted that chains would give much better traction. I don't think these are going to wreck my tires, but they didn't do much good, either. In my case, the clearance on the rear tires isn't sufficient for chains. Also the expense of rear tire chains is very large. If I ever get the spacers for the tires (another $300 item) then I should have the clearance, and I can consider dropping the dough for the rear chains.

 

[curvecrazy]

If you spin up with the studs you're gonna tear some out. Tree roots and spinning takes em out I find on ATV. I find your experience different from mine but where I am the ground is frozen hard and they grab and you go.
One difference might be in our approach.... First snowfall I prepare a base just driving the truck back and forth on the first 4-6 inches of snow. That makes an ice base that keeps my 3pt blower and front plow out of the gravel. Once the base is there it turns to ice under the snow and I do all my snow removal on top of that base to protect the driveway. My 2wd tractor gets around fine with minimal studs on the rear diamond pattern turfs. Longest I can use with my tread depth is about 3/4" but I don't have 3/4" so I used half inch koldkutters that I had on hand for three seasons now with good results. I've had no problems reusing tread screw holes over seasons. When removed they leave a tiny dimple hole on the tire so it's not like major damage to the tire if operator uses care on the tractor throttle not forcibly ripping out screws fwiw. My gravel drive has a slope at the woods and I literally can't get up it in the winter with the 2wd without some assist. V chains are great but the installs a hassle and the rides bouncy and the **** things loosen up so always adding more straps LOL. Not to mention raping my metal fenders on the inside when the chains move around which somehow they "always" manage to do! With moderate amounts of screws in the tires, which is super easy and quick to install with cordless drill, I go back and forth on that slope problem solved. No being stuck, spinning, BS, etc.... Just goes right up it no slip.
Sure it can be argued the V chains give better traction but their such a PITA to use that I'd willingly deal with the slight drawbacks of the ice screws or find another solution. I'm not interested in scratching neighbors driveways when attempting to be neighborly and help em out with snow removal....ie no good deed going unpunished. Oops.... Btw... The screws slip pretty easily on asphalt so if that's your gig then you're in the same boat as me searching for another solution.