This is NOT a coffee cup!

/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #121  
Harv, although my suggestions are not really welcome, I will make another one. Use MarkC's Marine Goop, and then add an acrylic pore into the recessed area and let it harden. Should provide a solid base, more adhesive 'power' that will not let go under any circumstances.
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #122  
Scruffy -

I gladly accept suggestions from any tractor owner -- Hey! That doesn't include you! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Not sure how an acrylic pour would do anything to strengthen the bond. Unless I'm thinking of a totally different kind of stuff, I used to use containers made of plastic similar to the Chalkley Cup for molds, specifically 'cuz the acrylic would not stick to it.

I'm probably just being my ignorant self here, but maybe you could elaborate on the specific type of acrylic goo you're talking about?

HarvSig.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup!
  • Thread Starter
#123  
Harv - Since the magnets are so strong, you might want to reconsider not allowing them to quite come in actual contact with the fender. This would place a lot less strain on the glue. Also, I'd take some coarse sandpaper and rough up the surface of the recess on the bottom of the cup a little. A little roughening tremendously increases the surface area the glue has to bond to.

MarkC
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/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #124  
Mark -

Keeping the magnets from actually touching the fender would indeed reduce the strain on the glue, but it would also reduce the overall grip strength to the tractor. I'm greedy -- I want grip strength and a permanent bond between cup and magnet. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

You're absolutely right about roughing up the surface of the plastic before gluing, and I have done so on my latest attempt.

As if I don't have any real work to do today, I talked to Aladdin Industries, who make the Extreme Gulp cup upon which the Chalkley Cup is based.

They tell me the cup is made of polypropylene, and they know of no adhesive that bonds with that material. They themselves use "spin welding" and "sonic welding" to attach the various cup parts, including the handle. Both of these processes essentially "melt" the plastic together in a true welding fashion. Of course that only works for joining pieces of polypropylene together, not to steel.

They laughed when I mentioned epoxy, and sure enough, my epoxy package has a disclaimer that it will not stick to polypropylene. They had no first-hand knowledge of Goop, and they conceded that it "might" work well enough for hobby use, but certainly would not be reliable enough for commercial use.

My web search so far has turned up one product which claims to bond polypropylene to itself and just about anything else. It's called Nbond, which, although it is a 2-part epoxy, is unlike all others in that it is specifically designed to adhere to polypropylene and polyethylene, claims the manufacturer.

Although it's not cheap ($11 for 50ml), it's not unreasonable, and I will probably give it a try. If I can't find it locally I will order it off their web page.

My wife says I "obsess" over trivial pursuits, such as sticking a magnet to a plastic cup. To me it's almost like a game -- the challenge ain't over 'til it's solved. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

HarvSig.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #125  
Harv not only rough the bottom up but also soften it up with some M.E.K. or some type of solvent cleaner. Something else that works good to prep the surface and soften it up is 2+2 carb cleaner. Next best thing to spin welding I guess there are a couple of glues at work that we use with limited sucess. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. But surface prep is the key to getting the glue to bond to any plastic surface.

Or you could always spin weld using a router a tank flange on the bottom of the cup with the magnets inside of the flange. Or use a plastic welder and weld the magnets to the bottom of the cup using the flange of the magnets to run the bead on.
The ways to attach the magnets are endless it's just gettin them to stay. I used glue from work to attach mine and it's held up well so far. But I prepped the surface first and that is the key to getting any thing to even attempt to stick to a plastic.
Gordon
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #127  
I believe what I used on the cup was KL-650 I'll double check tomorrow on the exact number and brand. You want to use a glue with a high solvent count so it will soften the plastic and help in the final bond. Just remember when glueing plastics your actually welding not just cementing. Did that make sense to you? I know what I'm tring to say hope you understood it.
Gordon
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #128  
Gordon -

I follow you on the "welding" concept, but I think you're referring to acrylic-type plastics. Neither polypropylene nor polyethylene react with any solvents, which is why it's so difficult to bond to them. You may notice, for example, that some of your solvents come in plastic bottles -- that's polypropylene or polyethylene.

Interestingly, as difficult as it is to find something that will stick to these cups, that's one of the reasons they are a very good product. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

HarvSig.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #129  
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS COFFEE CUP THREAD IS STILL GOING STRONG!!!!! THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF THAT IS MORE BORING THAN MOUNTING A CUP TO A TRACTOR FENDER IS FISHING!!! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #130  
Yup you are exactly correct Harv, now that I think about it thats why I can get a gallon of M.E.K. out of the fiftyfive gallon drum at work and guess what---it does't melt abit--my fault. But any is a very strong word. There has to be something. AAAAAhhhhh the old K-L 650 works sometimes.

Now you got me thinking what about all the solvents and thinners that come in a metal cans---looks like I'll have to do some investagating. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by gordon on 11/6/00 09:25 PM.</FONT></P>
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #132  
Thanks Harv, for the picture of the cup in use. I assume that is YOU in the driver's seat??? I hope so..

As for the glue....well....I'm pretty damned fond of superglue & "zipkicker". No...it doesn't really bond real well to metal...or plastic; but it sure is a hoot!

The glue being cyanoacrylate ester, and the "zip-kicker" makes it harden instantly. Great stuff! We are hoping to carry it soon for resale, but thus far, we havn't found a good source of the stuff. A cryin' shame...Go figure...the local hobby shop sells the stuff retail cheaper than we can get it wholesale. What gives?

Anyhow, superglue won't work, so disregard all that which I just rambled on about.

I will say though, I'm planning to work on some ideas of my own regarding the Chalkley Cup...and I will post the progress.

I have often described one of my cars as a 120mph tractor...and that is what I will use as my test bed. My brother's car could also be referred to as a tractor.

You can see them both at http://www.fieldlines.com/other/Ford.shtml

It takes a little time to load...Please be patient.

I'll use the old Jag for some tests of various renditions of the Chalkley cup. We'll see what happens.
Pictures to come soon.........


-Matt B
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #134  
Paul just remember this:

If you give a man a fish you will feed him for a day.

If you teach a redneck to fish he will go out in a boat and get drunk.

But you are correct isn't real fun to mount a cup is it? Or is it? The glue is the key. Or is the spacing of the magnets in relation to the vertical axis of the cup? Or maybe just maybe if you have a high iron content in your water and use the Chalkley-Harv-Magna-Forcefield cup you will end up with rust deposits on the bottom of your cup. Something to think about isn't it. Yup without a doubt more boring than golf! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #135  
PaulB -

Fishing is boring, but I love it, too. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

You raise an interesting point which I will not contaminate this already unwieldy thread with, so look for a new post titled "Boring Threads".

It mightbe interesting, but then again...

HarvSig.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup!
  • Thread Starter
#136  
PaulB, you're not paying attention! Mounting a cup to the fender of a tractor would only be boring if it were easy. Just ask Harv to explain it. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

MarkC
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/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #137  
Derek -
I just looked up J-B Weld and it sounds like an excellent product!

I'm getting the feeling, however, that any adhesive that works on polypropylene or polyethylene would come right out and say so. No self-respecting marketing department would pass that one up. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Gordon -
Aha! Sounds like I have a fellow trivial-pursuit comrade! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Let me know what you find out about solvents -- should be interesting.

HarvSig.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #138  
Matt -

Yeah, that's me on the tractor, for better or for worse. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I enjoyed your car saga -- quite a photo journey. Well done! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Can't wait to see your versions of the Chalkley Cup.

HarvSig.gif
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #139  
Harv, NOT being a tractor owner anymore is why I said the suggestions wouldn't be welcome. At any rate, the item I was thinking of was actually UraThane. Used to use it all the time working up clocks. With a little surface prep, it may work well. (I was thinking of covering the metal base, but not the magnet itself) Can't say if it will work though.
 
/ This is NOT a coffee cup! #140  
Scruffy,

I just noticed that you are a "Veteran Member" maybe it's been that way all along or does it mean that since you have sold your tractor you are discharged from "Tractordom".
If so I'm sure it was an "Honorable Discharge". Can you apply for G.I. (Good Intentions) benefits? Have you gone out to start your tractor and found out it's not there? I bet you can check into the V.A.(valuable author) Hospital for crisis counseling. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
 

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