The Vietnam Story

[houstonscott]

There's your answer. They say that in war there are no winners, but one can even look today at the failed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and see there's still have been winners. Corruption, brutality, incompetence, and nepotism will turn the people against their government no matter what "-ism" (communism, socialism, capitalism, etc.. they claim to be.) It was almost incomprehensible to Americans, who had been told we must fight for our glorious "-ism", and defeat that other evil "-ism", got into a conflict that wasn't so black and white, where a military solution wasn't the answer like the "good war" of their fathers. Corruption, brutality, incompetence, nepotism will turn the people against their government no matter what "-ism" they claim to be. Meanwhile, back at home, the politicians can only see it in the context of some global battle, versus the Soviets. or China and their "-ism", and no one wants to back down, especially after American lives had already been expended, so 57,000 more Americans had to die. . Ho Chi Minh knew, as some politicians know today, it's easy to rally the base when you point your hatred toward the foreigners. Ho also knew, as other politicians know today, it's easy to discredit an existing administration when they have ties to a foreign adversary.

What's your point?

 

[CobyRupert]

What's your point?

War's a racket.
Follow the money.

Which is hard to do, when the distractions and lies are about how evil (and/or crazy) the other side is, or how they somehow threaten us, (more rightly, how only we are allowed to point missiles at them, but not visa-versa) or that the integrity of the US is at stake, or how military action will be a "cakewalk" because we're the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen! etc..etc...etc....

In Vietnam it was the "domino theory". As much bunk as trickle down theory.

I'll get off my soapbox now, and return the discussion to the PBS program.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Some people DO understand the world we live in!

When you hear stories about FORD and GM both having had plants on BOTH sides in WW II, and Ford sued for damages after the war (and WON), you might begin to see how the world works. And this, good people send their children to die for.

Some, even insist that ****** was just a puppet for Western financial interests. Where did he get all the financing to build those mega projects?

 

[dmccarty]

Something all of you should think about is what General Vo Nguyen Giap, the Commander in Chief of the North Vietnamese Army had to say about John Kerry in his 1985 memoir 滴ow We Won The War? He said that the North Vietnamese were planning a negotiated surrender after the 68 TET offensive. They watched the US news and heard how distorted our press reported it and the war protesters rioting in the streets of America. He said 展e were delighted. We went from a planned surrender to a policy of needing to persevere for one more hour, day, week month, eventually the protesters in America would help us to achieve a victory we knew we could not win on the battlefield. He also said 的f it were not for organizations like John Kerry痴 Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the US.

展hat we still don稚 understand is why you Americans stopped the bombing of Hanoi. You had us on the ropes. If you had pressed us a little harder, just for another day or two, we were ready to surrender! It was the same at the battles of TET. You defeated us! We knew it, and we thought you knew it. But we were elated to notice your media was definitely helping us. They were causing more disruption in America than we could in the battlefields. We were ready to surrender. You had won!

Twice they were waiting to surrender, their generals words not mine.

Just because Giap said it does not mean it is true.

If one reads Mao's book, "On Guerrilla Warfare", Mao Tse-Tung On Guerrilla Warfare - Kindle edition by Mao Tse-Tung, General Samuel B. Griffith. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com., he lays out how to fight a stronger enemy which is done through stages. One of those stages would be what the VC/North Vietnamese were doing prior to Tet.

In Mao's book, the weaker combatant uses different tactics and strategy until they become as strong, or stronger, than their opponent. In other words, the weaker combatant uses guerrilla tactics to wear down the enemy while the weaker combatant becomes stronger until they are an equal, or more than equal, and can fight in a conventional manner to defeat the enemy. After Tet, the VC were all but wiped out militarily, the war became more of a conventional war and the NVA beat the ARVN conventionally. Which follows Mao.

Giap's Viet Minh forces did not defeat the French at Dien Bien Phu by being a weak, guerrilla force but were instead, a very competent and well armed conventional force which is what eventually defeated the South Vietnamese.

One of the mistakes, and thus lessons of Vietnam was to not apply pressure, aka the bombing campaigns, and then release pressure, stop the bombing, when it was starting to hurt the North Vietnamese. It was a beyond stupid policy of LBJ.

Later,
Dan

 

[Sigarms]

War's a racket.
Follow the money.

Which is hard to do, when the distractions and lies are about how evil (and/or crazy) the other side is, or how they somehow threaten us, (more rightly, how only we are allowed to point missiles at them, but not visa-versa) or that the integrity of the US is at stake, or how military action will be a "cakewalk" because we're the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen! etc..etc...etc....

In Vietnam it was the "domino theory". As much bunk as trickle down theory.

I'll get off my soapbox now, and return the discussion to the PBS program.

My father put 26 years in. Spent 3 or 4 tours in South East Asia.

He happens to agree with you 100%. He'll also add that today it seems like we don't learn from our past history when we send our men to war.

 

[houstonscott]

Just because Giap said it does not mean it is true. If one reads Mao's book, "On Guerrilla Warfare", Mao Tse-Tung On Guerrilla Warfare - Kindle edition by Mao Tse-Tung, General Samuel B. Griffith. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com., he lays out how to fight a stronger enemy which is done through stages. One of those stages would be what the VC/North Vietnamese were doing prior to Tet. In Mao's book, the weaker combatant uses different tactics and strategy until they become as strong, or stronger, than their opponent. In other words, the weaker combatant uses guerrilla tactics to wear down the enemy while the weaker combatant becomes stronger until they are an equal, or more than equal, and can fight in a conventional manner to defeat the enemy. After Tet, the VC were all but wiped out militarily, the war became more of a conventional war and the NVA beat the ARVN conventionally. Which follows Mao. Giap's Viet Minh forces did not defeat the French at Dien Bien Phu by being a weak, guerrilla force but were instead, a very competent and well armed conventional force which is what eventually defeated the South Vietnamese. One of the mistakes, and thus lessons of Vietnam was to not apply pressure, aka the bombing campaigns, and then release pressure, stop the bombing, when it was starting to hurt the North Vietnamese. It was a beyond stupid policy of LBJ. Later, Dan

Just because Walter said it doesn't mean it's true. With mainstream being exposed in modern information times we are almost assured they lied.

 

[6thgpSF]

Spent a year over there,Weighed 175 # at the start of my tour,weighed 130# at DEROS. Sick as a dog and full of infection. Got home to discharge at Ft Lewis and first thing we were told was the people of Seattle don't want you in their city,you are not welcomed there.I haven't set foot in the state of Washington since.They can still kiss my *** !...russ

 

[KubotainNH]

Spent a year over there,Weighed 175 # at the start of my tour,weighed 130# at DEROS. Sick as a dog and full of infection. Got home to discharge at Ft Lewis and first thing we were told was the people of Seattle don't want you in their city,you are not welcomed there.I haven't set foot in the state of Washington since.They can still kiss my *** !...russ

That's pitiful, sorry you and others had to go through that. I thank you and all the others on this board who served. :united-states:

 

[tcreeley]

-all disinformation and propaganda
I won't be watching.
It was a war that wasn't necessary - like what we do all of the time.

 

[Waynebob126]

I was there in '69 and '70 and have no interest in watching any crap about that place. I did my duty for my country, got no respect for my service to my country and only now have joined the VFW and American legion because I am a VETERAN and PROUD I served. There is NO good war, only BAD war, but I served.

Welcome home!