The 10,000th kioti won't start thread (sigh)

[jimmyj]

Every year I have a problem at the end of the summer whereby my negative battery cable needs to be removed, the battery terminal cleaned, the frame rail connection cleaned and the cable reinstalled to keep my CK30 starting.

This year, same old symptoms started to show up.

1. Turn key on, lights on dash light up
2. Clicking sound from the 2nd relay from the outside on the engine side of the firewall
3. Clicking slows down after a while and then glow light plug light illuminates as would be normal
4. The tractor will start like normal.

If I tried to turn it over before the relay clicking sound stopped, it would simply "click" at the starter just like if you had a low battery on your car.

So, this year it happens again and my usual fix doesn't work. In fact, it seems to get worse and the clicking becomes more rapid but slightly quieter.

I tried a brand new battery, cleaned all the terminals, inspected all fuses but still nada.

So, based on my numbers 1 through 4 above I can't get past number 2. If I fiddle with the ignition and turn the lights on the tractor ON, and turn the key to the glow plug preheat position for a few seconds the relay stops clicking. Any attempt to start it simply results in a clicking starter though (solenoid I suppose).

My tractor is in a very dark shed, so all I can see with is a flashlight and unfortunately the loader and backhoe are both on, both down on the ground and the tractor is parked as close to the wall on the drivers side as I can get it so I can't get in there to work on the starter or solenoid unless I lay underneath it and reach up.

Do you think I have a corroded pos or neg cable? Any suggestions? I have read many many of the "won't start" threads but I cannot figure out what to do and I need the tractor to get some work done that is time sensitive.

Thanks in advance for any tips or suggestions...

Jim

 

[wolftree]

I would clean ALL electrical connections. If you have other battery cables there, substitute them.

 

[k0ua]

Battery cable eaten up on the inside under the insulation is a common problem.. you can't see it. Yank on it hard. I keep telling guys to use NO-OX-ID on all of your battery connections, and nothing bad will ever happen to your battery connections.. I have only been using the stuff professionally for 34 years and NEVER EVER had a battery connection problem. What do I know. Preaching in the wilderness. I am sorry, I just know If I could get guys to coat their new tractor/trucks/cars battery terminals with this product, (as I do with every car, truck, tractor, lawn tractor I have owned in the last 34 years) they would never post about no start problems due to conductivity issues.:confused3:

Sanchem NOOXID electrical grease & electrically conductive grease dielectric grease and contact lubricants

James K0UA

 

[murphy1244]

Clean out the ignition switch

 

[murphy1244]

Battery cable eaten up on the inside under the insulation is a common problem.. you can't see it. Yank on it hard. I keep telling guys to use NO-OX-ID on all of your battery connections, and nothing bad will ever happen to your battery connections.. I have only been using the stuff professionally for 34 years and NEVER EVER had a battery connection problem. What do I know. Preaching in the wilderness. I am sorry, I just know If I could get guys to coat their new tractor/trucks/cars battery terminals with this product, (as I do with every car, truck, tractor, lawn tractor I have owned in the last 34 years) they would never post about no start problems due to conductivity issues.:confused3:

Sanchem NOOXID electrical grease & electrically conductive grease dielectric grease and contact lubricants

James K0UA

I'm sold! where do I get it?

 

[Soundguy]

that no ox stuff is good.

we also use a de ox it gold in fine electronics settings.

 

[k0ua]

I'm sold! where do I get it?

LED lighting, soundproof, Sailor's Solutions Inc.

NO-OX-ID Contact Grease

no ox id a special | eBay

http://redmancb.com/conductive-antenna-grease/

Truthfully 2 oz. will treat dozens of battery's. and we should be putting it on the connectors under the floor boards of our Kioti's.

 

[sdef]

KOua: Thanks for the tip. I just ordered an 8 oz tube from eBay for my new DK45SE HST.

 

[murphy1244]

LED lighting, soundproof, Sailor's Solutions Inc.

NO-OX-ID Contact Grease

no ox id a special | eBay

No Ox ID Conductive Antenna Grease

Truthfully 2 oz. will treat dozens of battery's. and we should be putting it on the connectors under the floor boards of our Kioti's.

Thanks James I just ordered it!

 

[ritcheyvs]

Clean out the ignition switch

I normally recommend a systematic troubleshooting approach. But the switch is probably the only thing easy to access so I second Murph's recommendation.

 

[jimmyj]

I am going to try and jump the starter directly today to bypass the bits in between. The relay now just makes a continuous clicking or buzzing sound. May as well check the ignition as well, why not really......

 

[radioman]

Have you tried leaving key in on position and short the connection for starting and power wire to starter to see if it turns over? if it does, its possible you may have a switch or starting wire correded to starter. If not you might have bad ground somewhere. If thats the case, use your jumper cables from neg of battery to clean bare metal part of frame of tractor and try starting again.

 

[jimmyj]

use your jumper cables from neg of battery to clean bare metal part of frame of tractor and try starting again.

I never thought of that. Good idea. Thanks.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I am going to try and jump the starter directly today to bypass the bits in between. The relay now just makes a continuous clicking or buzzing sound. May as well check the ignition as well, why not really......

The data I have (which may not represent your model) shows the starter relay as closest to the outside (on the front of the firewall) and the next one inboard is the glow relay (which is clicking). So it seems you have problems with the starter circuit and also the glow circuit. Other than the main 60-amp fuse and battery cables (and associated connections) the key switch appears to be the only common denominator here. Given multiple reports of confirmed problems with that switch (and ease of removing it) I'd suggest you check it if the starter checks out (and you can get to it)

 

[Avondale]

I had similar problems with my 2006 DK 35. For the ign sw, I sprayed inside and outside of switch with electric contact spray cleaner, dried off best I could and it seems to work. Regarding the batt problems, I got tired of messing around so frequently so I swapped out to Can Tire batt and cable lugs, replaced both +ve and -ve cables and have not had any more issues from that end. Good luck and please let us know what your solution turns out to be.

 

[jimmyj]

The jumper from the neg side of the battery to the frame worked like a charm. Will be replacing the battery cables (going to do both, cheap insurance).

Thanks all for the comments. Oh yes, I'm also going to replace the bolt that attaches the neg cable to the frame with one that won't corrode.

 

[k0ua]

The jumper from the neg side of the battery to the frame worked like a charm. Will be replacing the battery cables (going to do both, cheap insurance).

Thanks all for the comments. Oh yes, I'm also going to replace the bolt that attaches the neg cable to the frame with one that won't corrode.

So your cable was eaten up on the inside with the green/white powder "mung" then? split the insulation and check it out.. I believe just the sulfuric acid fumes from being near the battery is enough to cause this. When I get a new vehicle I make sure to seal the edge of the insulation with the no-ox-id grease on both ends, and coat everything metallic near the battery, including battery hold down hardware.

 

[jimmyj]

I have to get some of that no ox id stuff. I havent cut the cable up but I'm sure it will look like you said kOua.

 

[Soundguy]

insuficient ground if a extra jumper helped...

 

[Coyote machine]

The jumper from the neg side of the battery to the frame worked like a charm. Will be replacing the battery cables (going to do both, cheap insurance).

Thanks all for the comments. Oh yes, I'm also going to replace the bolt that attaches the neg cable to the frame with one that won't corrode.

Use stainless bolt and copper anti-seize or the no-ox. I also spray the grounding bolt and both frame and battery cable end(s) with a battery corrosion prevention spray, available at most auto stores, to keep out atmospheric moisture and water/road salt, etc. This renders the issue mute.