Testing a well pump starter

[Phils]

My well stopped sending any water ... I can't feel the pump running, and I was able to before.

I've checked and am getting 240VAC through the pressure switch to this starter. With the starter off, I did a continuity test of the two pump wires and got a little over 5 ohms. I didn't test the "start" wire to the pump because I don't know what to test for on that wire.

The pump may be shot. It's been down there since at least 1993. However it is only run for 45 minutes every 4th day so it wouldn't have the hours on it that most would of that age. It's great water but we only get 55 gallons/day. I pump to a cistern that supplies our house pressure with a jet pump.

I THINK there's water in the well. It's never failed to refill after pumping in over 25 years. The early pumps died because of sand and dynamite plastic residue eating the impellers, no problems with motors.

How do you test these starters? I was hoping to open it and see someplace where the smoke got out, but it appears just fine. I know I could just buy another since (compared to the pump and labor for being replaced at 320') the cost should be rather low. But IF I need to replace the pump, I'm opting for a Grundfos helical rotor style pump rather than the centrifugal impeller type, since it is an unlined well and could/would still get debris and the helical rotor type is supposed to handle sand and debris with no problem. So I'm reluctant to buy another starter just to see if this one is bad.

Suggestions PLEASE.

Phil

 

[tommu56]

Phils
Hook up the box and take a voltage reading on the wires when it try's to start and is truing to run


Can you see in the well is there any evidence of the torque on the well pipe when it try's and starts?

These pumps are usually 2 phase with a relay to put the capacitor in the circuit to create the phase shift to start.


the grundfus pump i have at my cabin is 120v and has the progressive cavity like you are suggesting and it say's not to clean the well out with it it will damage it so pumping sand or dirty In my opinion would be just as bad as a centrifugal pump try and find a brass pump impellers instead of plastic they might last longer it that is the problem.
tom

 

[Phils]

Phils
Hook up the box and take a voltage reading on the wires when it try's to start and is truing to run


Can you see in the well is there any evidence of the torque on the well pipe when it try's and starts?

These pumps are usually 2 phase with a relay to put the capacitor in the circuit to create the phase shift to start.


the grundfus pump i have at my cabin is 120v and has the progressive cavity like you are suggesting and it say's not to clean the well out with it it will damage it so pumping sand or dirty In my opinion would be just as bad as a centrifugal pump try and find a brass pump impellers instead of plastic they might last longer it that is the problem.
tom

Thanks for the tips Tom. I'm not sure I can see if there's any torque without lifting the top of the well, which is pretty heavy with 320' of pipe full of water and a pump attached. I could make some short jumpers to test voltages when I try and start it but I'm not sure what I'd be looking for there, either.

The closest pump shop is about 25 miles away. Do they normally have a tester for these controllers? (I'll make phone calls AFTER I get advice/suggestons/knowledge from my friends here at TBN)

I have a tall engine A-frame that I could use with a winch to pull the pump. The piping is PVC in 10 ft sections. I'd consider putting one-piece poly back down.

The well actually is pretty clean now. The dynamite and sand problem was over two decades ago. Of course, pulling and replacing the pump would knock "stuff" in, but I'd wait a day before pumping.

I sure am interested in YOUR pump. I was looking at the SQFLEX series which'll use DC from 30 to 300V or AC from 90 to 240V. I'm guessing yours is a helical rotor made for 120V? THAT'S really what I need, IF I have to change pumps. I want to power it from a 2500Watt Xantrex SW series inverter and besides the helical rotor, the soft start and stop appeal to me. Do you know how many watts or amps yours takes (and how deep it is)?

Phil

 

[tommu56]

Yes that is the pump I have because I am off grid with it I have a 2850 watt invertor to power it off 1820ah battery setup running it on 120v

This is at my cabin i have a low yield well 20- 30 gpd and pump it 2 x a day to a cistern to store it while were not there and pump out of that while we are there

any motor shop can check the pump it dosen't have to be a well pump gut

tom

 

[heehaw]

the only thing i have ever seen happen to a starter is the capacitor go bad: if you have an ohm meter, disconnect the starter and check across the cap: it should show a short an then as it charges up, go to high resistance: if not, its bad an won't "start" the motor...you can see the cap in one of the pics you posted...with it out like in the pic, FIRST, put a screwdriver across the terminals to discharge any voltage that may be there: if it sparks i would bet its good: but then put the ohmeter across. if you end up needing a pump, look on ebay, i got a brand new one for a lot less than i could get anywhere else.
heehaw

 

[Phils]

heehaw,

I'll check the cap, tho I'm not holding my breath.

I was looking at eBay this morning but so far haven't seen anything that would work for me. I WILL keep checking tho.

tom,

What inverter are you using? I've been off-grid since '77 and currently use three inverters: lights/entertainment, appliances, and water pressure.

A Xantrex SW2500MC inverter powers the jet pump supplying pressure from the cistern with no problem. I'd just throw the breaker to that pump and use that inverter at 120V to run the well pump, rather than running the genset every four days. That inverter has the 56-step waveform IIRC and I haven't been able to find anywhere that says it'll work OK. I saw somewhere than MSW inverters won't work, and my battery bank is 12V so I can't use the DC option.

I burnt up my last jet pump using an old Heart Interface 2000w MSW inverter. The new pump likes the waveform from the Xantrex just fine, which leads me to believe it'd work for the Grundfos too.

I'd prefer NOT to buy another new inverter just to get True Sine Wave for just this.

And if I pull this pump, I won't need it tested as I'd not be putting a pump that old back down.

Are you using the CU200 control box or just the IO-100 on-off switch?

Phil

 

[tommu56]

Phils

Yes I have the cu200 controller.

But I turn the power off to it when its not running with a ss realy and the 12v plc

I have a outback system charge controller and inverter mx60 / fx2850 and dc power panel to SQ D QO 120v panel for the ac.

and 4 MF125UE-125 watt panels to charging the bank wired in series

A plc to do the time of day cycling of the pump.

I'm still working on the float switches and 2nd pump for the toilet from rain water tank to an elevated gravity tank to toilet.
RV water heater (limits the girls to 6 minuet showers)

RV pump from the cistern to cabin plumbing on 12 volts

tom

 

[tommu56]

I placed and pulled my pump 2 times because I had to lower it in to the water further and it is down 450ft.
I put 1/2" poly rope on it with a tee at the top of the pump with a tracer 8 hitched to the tee (the wimpy bracket on pump brolewith a pipe full of water and pump the first time I pulled it and use a rim mounted to my tractor tire over a snatch block off back hoe down the well
I have some one else walk the wire and pipe out up the lane to get rid of it
while i run the tractor / rope capstan search capstan and my tractor and picture of pulling the pump should come up..
tom

 

[tommu56]

Phils here is the link

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/136790-tractor-rim-capstan-winch.html

post 12

the rope got caught when I took this picture pulling the pump the 2nd time

tom

 

[Kays Supply]

When I worked on pumps we made a jumper from an old box so you could plug it in and set the lid to the side. You can then check the pump wires with an amprobe and tell exactly what the pump is doing. If it is getting off the start winding or staying in. You can check the start amps and the run amps. That is a way to know exactly what your pump is doing. Low amps, no water. High amps stuck / dragging.