Tell us something we don’t know.

[Fuddyduddy1952]

At least some of this is total BS. The American Indians did not even have horses before their "white brothers" brought them from Europe in 1519. So, how were they gifting free horses to one-another?

There was plenty of warring between Native American tribes, long before and contemporary to the Europeans arriving. Possessing inferior military technology does not somehow imply or guarantee a group is passivists. It's terrible, what they suffered due to disease and mistreatment, but they were also not innocent lambs at the slaughter. The whole idea of that meme, that they were all just living in harmony, is fiction.

A few historians have pointed out what a shame it was, that we discovered a stone-aged culture in the 17th century, as of course we did nothing but conquer and destroy it. Imagine if we had the same opportunity today, to learn and understand how such an ancient culture lived. In many regards, they were living in the 17th century, as the middle east and Europe were, 4000 - 2000 BC.

Not according to recent archeological research:

"Long before horses became known as man’s trusty sidekicks, there were around a dozen species that roamed around the Great Plains of North America approximately 10 million years ago, according to the American Museum of Natural History."
(An international study, funded in part by the U.S. National Science Foundation, found that horses have been present on the Great Plains of North America since as early as the 16th century. In 1519, the Spanish conquistador Hernando Cortés brought horses from Cubanascnan (Cuba) to Tenochtitlán (Mexico City) as part of his conquering force to the mainland.The study included researchers from the University of Colorado Boulder, the Lakota Nation, Comanche Nation and Pawnee Nation, as well as researchers from schools across 15 countries, spanning over five continents.)

(Animal Welfare Institute):
"The genus Equus, which includes modern horses, zebras, and asses, is the only surviving genus in a once diverse family of horses that included 27 genera. The precise date of origin for the genus Equus is unknown, but evidence documents the dispersal of Equus from North America to Eurasia approximately 2–3 million years ago and a possible origin at about 3.4–3.9 million years ago. Following this original emigration, several extinctions occurred in North America, with additional migrations to Asia (presumably across the Bering Land Bridge), and return migrations back to North America, over time."
There are horse cave paintings in North America dating back 1000s of years.
Maybe John Lame Deer was referencing "White brothers" to Pilgrims...who knows.

 

[Rockbadchild]

At least some of this is total BS. The American Indians did not even have horses before their "white brothers" brought them from Europe in 1519. So, how were they gifting free horses to one-another?

There was plenty of warring between Native American tribes, long before and contemporary to the Europeans arriving. Possessing inferior military technology does not somehow imply or guarantee a group is passivists. It's terrible, what they suffered due to disease and mistreatment, but they were also not innocent lambs at the slaughter. The whole idea of that meme, that they were all just living in harmony, is fiction.

A few historians have pointed out what a shame it was, that we discovered a stone-aged culture in the 17th century, as of course we did nothing but conquer and destroy it. Imagine if we had the same opportunity today, to learn and understand how such an ancient culture lived. In many regards, they were living in the 17th century, as the middle east and Europe were, 4000 - 2000 BC.

the truth right there … also they had no currency so they couldn’t buy anything, they traded…

One historien said “they where the groups of people who lived the longest in one place while creating the least impact on nature” I believe it and i can give them that, they did have some impact for sure but for them everything had a spirit so that statement would make sense that they where considerate on their impact.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Not according to recent archeological research:

"Long before horses became known as man’s trusty sidekicks, there were around a dozen species that roamed around the Great Plains of North America approximately 10 million years ago, according to the American Museum of Natural History."
(An international study, funded in part by the U.S. National Science Foundation, found that horses have been present on the Great Plains of North America since as early as the 16th century. In 1519, the Spanish conquistador Hernando Cortés brought horses from Cubanascnan (Cuba) to Tenochtitlán (Mexico City) as part of his conquering force to the mainland.The study included researchers from the University of Colorado Boulder, the Lakota Nation, Comanche Nation and Pawnee Nation, as well as researchers from schools across 15 countries, spanning over five continents.)

(Animal Welfare Institute):
"The genus Equus, which includes modern horses, zebras, and asses, is the only surviving genus in a once diverse family of horses that included 27 genera. The precise date of origin for the genus Equus is unknown, but evidence documents the dispersal of Equus from North America to Eurasia approximately 2–3 million years ago and a possible origin at about 3.4–3.9 million years ago. Following this original emigration, several extinctions occurred in North America, with additional migrations to Asia (presumably across the Bering Land Bridge), and return migrations back to North America, over time."
There are horse cave paintings in North America dating back 1000s of years.
Maybe John Lame Deer was referencing "White brothers" to Pilgrims...who knows.

yes the horses was born in America but went instinct 12 to 10 thousand years ago they left the bearing straight didn’t came in … until the spanish brought them back … todays feral horses are well known to have Spanish horse DNA

 

[Jstpssng]

Not according to recent archeological research

Yet none of your post contradicts his. As you suggest, they were extinct for 10,000 years until they were reintroduced by the Europeans.

There are many things we've been taught which aren't necessarily accurate. Hunters wiped out the bison, right?
Well, they certainly didn't help it, but there were other mitigating factors. The Cherokees became great equestrians, amassing a herd of 10,000 animals which competed with the Bison for space. For centuries the Plains tribes had managed the grasslands with fire, to promote habitat. In the 1800s they were decimated by smallpox and were unable to continue that practice. Meanwhile cattle were being moved across the landscape, likely untroducing disease which the bison weren't resistant to.

But don't tell an anti hunter that, as he us convinced that we singlehandedly wiped out the bison.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Yet none of your post contradicts his. As you suggest, they were extinct for 10,000 years until they were reintroduced by the Europeans.

There are many things we've been taught which aren't necessarily accurate. Hunters wiped out the bison, right?
Well, they certainly didn't help it, but there were other mitigating factors. The Cherokees became great equestrians, amassing a herd of 10,000 animals which competed with the Bison for space. For centuries the Plains tribes had managed the grasslands with fire, to promote habitat. In the 1800s they were decimated by smallpox and were unable to continue that practice. Meanwhile cattle were being moved across the landscape, likely untroducing disease which the bison weren't resistant to.

But don't tell an anti hunter that, as he us convinced that we singlehandedly wiped out the bison.

that’s a good theory/possibility / explanation… curious what do you think about the theory of the settler's wiping out the bison to remove the food of the native so they couldn’t survive?… because they did wipe out a lot by adopting the native strategy (jumping buffalo) probably a combination

 

[Jstpssng]

that’s a good theory/possibility / explanation… curious what do you think about the theory of the settler's wiping out the bison to remove the food of the native so they couldn’t survive?… because they did wipe out a lot by adopting the native strategy (jumping buffalo) probably a combination

I think that hunters definitely had an impact, but there were other factors as well. I once estimated something like 2000 animals would have to be killed every day of the year for 80 years in order to wipe out the herds... and that doesn't account for ingrowth. Even I'm not THAT good!!

 

[Rockbadchild]

I think that hunters definitely had an impact, but there were other factors as well. I once estimated something like 2000 animals would have to be killed every day of the year for 80 years in order to wipe out the herds... and that doesn't account for ingrowth. Even I'm not THAT good!!

year that doesn’t sound possible at all …

 

[WinterDeere]

Not according to recent archeological research:

"Long before horses became known as man’s trusty sidekicks, there were around a dozen species that roamed around the Great Plains of North America approximately 10 million years ago, according to the American Museum of Natural History."

yep... I actually started to type the same in my prior post, but omitted because it's not really relevant. The horses native to North America went extinct probably 10,000 years ago, long before the time of the Native American tribes to which John Lame Deer was referring. The truth is no American Indian in approximately 10,000 years had ever seen a horse, let alone one that they could break and ride, since the Paleolithic.

edit: Sorry, just saw @Jstpssng and @Rockbadchild both already basically said the same thing.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I'll ask my geologist brother. Who knows for absoute certainty since new discoveries are made all the time. I did read about the extinction period, maybe due to the last ice age? Maybe some horses survived it?
History is interesting and dynamic. Who knows the accuracy of what life was like in 2024 in year 3000?
My Cherokee father in law told of things told to him verbally from his ancestors. Even in my lifetime (71) I've seen inaccuracies of some things.

 

[masseyrider]

History is interesting and dynamic. Who knows the accuracy of what life was like in 2024 in year 3000?
My Cherokee father in law told of things told to him verbally from his ancestors. Even in my lifetime (71) I've seen inaccuracies of some things.

In a 1000 years?
There's already disagreement about things that happened during WW2 and there are still some survivors that saw events.
There are historians writing definitive histories based on documents that themselves may be highly inaccurate or altered for political reasons. Look at what Political Correctness is doing to Merican Civil War history.
Some day we may have to apologize to the Nazis.
If you want an accurate history of the horse in North America just ask Quick Draw McGraw and his faithful sidekick Baba Looey.