TC30 HST -vs- Farmtrac 300DTC

[gamble77]

Thats what I am trying to explain to you guys...

If I get on a gear tractor with 30hp I can put that baby in high range, middle gear, and go cut hills all day long and the tractor will not blink. Here you guys are talking about how you have no problem cutting with your hydros as long as you are not in high!

I love hydrostatic transmissions and they do have their place. I think they are great for flatter land and also are amazing when it comes to lots of loader work where you are in and out of places. But when I put a bushhog or finishing mower behind my tractor and go cut hilly land a hydro is not my cup of tea.

Heres the problem I always run into. Some man comes in and wants to trade in his old gear driven tractor for a brand new fancy hydro. I take the hydro out there on his land (which is hilly) he puts the thing in high range and gets on the gas...then when the tractor starts to bog down he can't understand it. "Well my old tractor didn't bog down in high range", can't tell you how many times I have heard that!!

Again, in my opinion hydrostatic tractors are not the best for cutting on slopes, gear drive tractors are just superior to me for that task. Personnally I don't want to be stopping and changing between high, medium, and low everytime I am encountered with a different hill. And I do have hydrostatic tractors to sell so I am not really sure where you are going with that one, just sold a CK25HST yesterday actually...

So yes, I do put my tractor in high gear and head for the hills...my gear drive tractor that is. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Bird]

I guess I can sorta understand what you're saying, but it still just doesn't really make sense to me. The mid-range on my Kubota B2710 was about 5 mph, which was about as fast as I wanted to mow anyway, so I wasn't shifting between ranges. Yes, I did try cutting my own pasture, very flat, in the high range and could certainly do it, but the ride was too rough to suit me. Just how fast do you want to be able to run when you're mowing? Not that it matters, I guess. I'm certainly in favor of everyone using what suits them best. I don't really mind using a geared tractor, which is what I used cutting and baling hay, but I'd just prefer the HST.

 

[jinman]

Thanks for your response. I see you are now moderating your position and also explaining more what/why you said what you did in the beginning. In your first post you said:

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You can't just keep that hydro pedal on the floor and expect the tractor to compensate for the load change...whereas a geared tractor does a MUCH better job of this.
)</font>

What you described there with the "pedal on the floor" is high-high gear for a hydro. As you know, the pedal on a hydro IS the gear range and it's continuously variable so you can select the perfect speed for the job while keeping the engine at a constant rpm. With a gear tractor you have to vary the throttle or slip the clutch to get the same variation in speed in a single gear, and that changes the PTO rpm and/or wears out the clutch.

What do you mean by "high range, middle gear"? I thought most 8-speed tractors had two ranges and 4 gears in each range. I'm curious whether you mean 2nd or 3rd as the middle gear? Perhaps your gear tractor only has three gears in each range. All that clutching and gear changing and range changing gets me confused and tired. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyhow, I believe I now understand what is happening with your customers who buy a hydro tractor for the first time after being owners of gear tractors. They are experiencing the "hydro pedal is not a gas pedal" conundrum that is normal and so frustrating until the function of the pedal becomes second nature after continued use. To a dealer, it must be very frustating to have customers come back with that complaint. I understand your position. My guess would be that you don't have many customers bringing back a hydro after having it for a year, especially the ones who also have purchased a loader and do a considerable amount of dirt work. Once they also learn that they can easily vary the speed of travel to match the heavy or light grass conditions of mowing, and effortless direction changes, they will love the hydro and wonder how they ever got by without one. And in all fairness, if they spend most of their time plowing and pulling draft loads, they will probably hate the hydro. It's the old 80/20 rule. You have to buy a tractor for the jobs you will do 80% of the time.

You mentioned mowing on slopes several times and I'm not sure how severe your slopes are, but I think I have about as brutal terrain as anyone would ever want to mow and I would not be without my hydro. I have two (high and low) gear ranges with two hydro ranges within each gear range. I mow slopes all the time in next to the highest range. My highest range is really a road range. In that range, I can go faster than my mower can cut, or I can just creep along with nothing more than the movement of my right foot. All the while my mower stays at a constant speed. When I go up a slope, I may slightly back off on my pedal for a little more torque, and when I go downhill, I back off so the hydro works like a brake. I never have to touch my brake pedal, clutch pedal, or reach for a gear lever. To come to a complete stop at any time, all I have to do is lift my foot.

On severe grades such as pond dams and gullies, I shift to my lower hydro range and back my mower right down to the water line without ever using the brake. Hydros are perfect for this job. I had an old gear tractor I kept for mowing when I got my hydro tractor. After mowing with the hydro one time, I never put the mower on the gear tractor again. For rough terrain, the hydro is vastly superior. I'm attaching an aerial picture to just show some of the areas I mow. I couldn't do most of this if I didn't have a hydro. It just wouldn't be safe.

So I understand your frustration, and I also understand your customer's learning curve to become accustomed to their hydros, but I believe for dirt work and mowing on any type of terrain, the hydro is the best way to go.

 

[gamble77]

Your right, the MAJOR problem with hydrostatic transmissions is the customers inexperience. They are use to, like you mentioned, just hammering the throttle and the tractor doing what it is suppose to do and thats just not the case with hydrostatic transmissions.

For loader work the hydro wins hands down...although a VERY experienced shuttle shift operator can stay pretty close against a hydro (but with some detriment to the trans surely /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

Anyway, I think you guys see where I am coming from and I see where you are coming from so I get back to what I was telling the original poster of this thread...have your dealer bring the TC30HST out to your land and see how it operates. If you dealer isn't willing to do this then you don't want to do business with him anyway! That way you can get a "first hand account" of the pros & cons to the hydro trans. Heck for that matter also schedule for a FarmTrac dealer to bring out a 300DTC just to see the differences. The last thing you want to do is listen to a bunch of people on the internet who really don't know what your needs are and then end up not being happy with what you decide to buy! We are here to help guide, but you need to make the final decision based on whats best for you.

 

[adlertom]

Gary,

I also have hilly terrain, and wanted a FEL for harvesting firewood. Prior to purchasing my TC33DA with HST, I had never driven a tractor before. So, safety was a concern of mine.

I wanted a tractor that would be safer on the slopes. As a new operator, I didn't want to be messing around with a clutch and gear shifting while on an incline. The HST is always "in gear", so the movement of the tractor is more controlled.

I'm happy with my purchase of a HST unit. Even now, as a more experienced operator, if I ever purchased a different tractor I think I'd still opt fot the HST.

As a side note, be sure to keep your center of gravity low when working on your slopes. I carry a box blade in a low position on the 3PH when working on the slopes. Also, when I park on an incline I lower the box blade, which anchors the tractor and keeps it from rolling away. I also use the parking brake, but the box blade adds a great measure of safety to keep the tractor from moving.

I hope you enjoy your new tractor as much as I enjoy mine. Always keep safety in mind!

Tom

 

[Gumby6]

Well this thread has been most informative. Thanks to all who have contributed.

An apology to Gamble77 for privately thinking your information were somewhat biased. Your latest post explains how you reached your conclusions.

As my primary functions will be with the FEL and I have the inclines to deal with I am settled on the HST. That, unfortunately for the Farm dealer disqualifies the 300DTC. The NH dealer I am working the purchase with has been most helpful. To be honest I have not asked for a test drive on my property, mainly because I share time with another property in another state, and scheduling would be a problem. I am not daunted by the task of purchasing at a distance. I have taken the time to see both units in person though.

I plan to have the rear wheels liquid filled to increase weight for the loader functions. Can I assume this will help with the center of gravity also?

I do know to keep the loader as low as possibility when traveling/moving material. And I know that if I feel the tractor tipping in any way that dropping the loader immediately to ground helps stabilize the unit.

 

[Donnyj]

I'm not trying to push the Farmtrac, but from what I have seen on there web site they also have a 330 HST 33hp and a 390HST 39 hp if you want to compare HST to each other. I have personally tried out the 390 HST and found it to be a good tractor. I just did not like the small operators area. Just something else to think about. Hope it helps and good luck.

 

[gamble77]

They have recently discontinued the 330HST so if he wanted a HST FarmTrac he would have to go with the 39hp 390HST which I would imagine would be out of his price league. Guess we need to let FarmTrac know they need to take the 330HST off their web-page but I believe they are about to update it to include the new 7 series and some more implements they have coming so they might take it off then.

 

[Donnyj]

Thanks for the info.

 

[thcri]

I have to agree with Jinman and Bird and anyone else who calls for hydro.

Hydro you can change your speed and keep your RPM's up there. With a clutch you can't. On hills you hit rough or thick spots that may make you slow down. With a clutch you have to stop and shift which can be dangerous because now you have a free wheeling tractor. With Hydro you can go forward or backwards without pushing in the clutch or changing the speed of your implement. I would never send an inexperienced person out on hill with a clutch if you had a hydro available.

murph