Taxes... Where Will It End?

BIGUN · Apr 28, 2004

Hey Billy,

I was just getting ready to tell you how bad taxes are here in Oklahoma when I noticed where you are from. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My taxes are about double what they were when we lived in Texas. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif And then we get to pay a toll for the privilege of driving on just about every four lane out of Tulsa. I really wonder what all the additional tax money goes for here, I can't see it. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Obviously people here do enjoy paying taxes. Recently it was put to the voters in Tulsa to approve an additional 1% sales tax and they voted it right in. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif So you and I must be in the minority around here wondering where it will end.

California · Apr 28, 2004

( Where is the money going? )

Defense? Interest cost on the national debt?

It seems to me we can't discuss the tax burden without listing where it is spent. But TBN isn't the place to debate those priorities.

As for State taxes, here in California the new governor seems to be getting some handle on State costs in the departments he manages, but the 300 lb gorilla he's facing is how to pay for the billions in long term energy contracts the state signed with Enron, Mirant, etc during the energy crisis a couple of years ago.

We just read that our bond rating has fallen to near junk status, lowest in the nation, because of fixed State costs and insufficient tax revenue forecasted to meet those costs. This increases the State's borrowing costs, compounding the problem. In an entirely bipartisan way, I hope the governor can solve this puzzle.

NIXON · Apr 28, 2004

Boone you ask a good question ! And to be honest , I have no Clue . Actually I'm retired goverment myself . ( mil )
But one thing I do ask myself is why has the govenment attracted so much business ? I Grew up in the DC area (falls Church ) It was close to the DC area . But now it's been swallowed up ! Drive on 495 .... It was at one time the belt way ! Now it's just a Highway into,and around DC ! No doubt this area has economic growth ! But , what does it produce ????
Nothing of value in my book ! People go to work to produce paper and more work for others . There are no products or tangible material benefits coming from there . As it exist now the government is basically in power to protect and fund itself . I know that's a sad and inflamatory statement . And I really wish I didn't feel that way . But I do ! Basically I think that if you are in government,and not in the process of defending this country ........... you are a leech ! Keep your slogans like the war on drugs , poverty , illiteracy etc.. They are jus5t that ! SLOGANS . They serve no purpose other than to draw the people of this country (which are by and large uninitiated ) into the vacuum of "mother Government " Well , that's my total rant for this year /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif John
Ps to stay on subject .... I'm getting tnt fitted to my 3130 .

BIGUN · Apr 28, 2004

( I was watching the news tonight...
One of the presidential candidates was in town today.
In his speach, he mentioned that he wanted the federal government to fund a certain school program instead of make each local school district pay for it.
(Notice I'm sticking to my personal rule not to mention specific candidates or political parties in my TBN posts)

That's fine and dandy, but no one realizes whether the local school district funds the program or the federal government funds it, the ones who are ultimately funding it are the taxpayers.

The only thing that changes is the level of taxes (local vs federal) taxes that are funding the program.

It always amazes me when I see the number of people who fall for a line like that and say, "Is that great? The government is going to pay for that!"

Nope, the TAXPAYER is paying for it! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif )

I used to work with an old fellow who was fond of saying, "The government can't GIVE you ANYTHING that it didn't TAKE from you first". /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I always though he was pretty close with that idea. They MIGHT give you something they didn't TAKE from YOU first, but they they darn sure TOOK it from SOMEBODY first. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

AndyM · Apr 28, 2004

Everyone keeps saying they've had enough of taxes...

Taxes??? I thought he said Texas !!!

I guess I better get back to work! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Boone · Apr 28, 2004

Basically I think that if you are in government,and not in the process of defending this country ........... you are a leech !
====================================
I'm a state employee, I work as an officer in a maximum security prison. I'm not a defense dept. employee, would you consider me to be a leech?

Gatorboy · Apr 28, 2004

Just remember this:

In good times and in bad times, government continues to grow.

I wish the same were true for my bank account

PhilNH5 · Apr 28, 2004

When I was about 16 I started paying attention to the world at large. Jimmy Carter was running for president. I asked my dad to explain the differences between republicans and democrats. The following is his explaination:

The democrats want to take you hard earned money and give it to poor people.

The republicans want to tkae your hard earned money and give it to rich people.

Either way you are ( insert cuss word of choice here).....!!!

28 years later I realize how right the man was.

Gatorboy · Apr 28, 2004

MYTH: The rich pay little in taxes.

This myth, more than any other myth, that has created the unwarranted and destructive dissension among the so-called economic classes in this country. The wealthy pay a truly stunning amount of tax, and there are virtually no exceptions. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been misguided.

Von · Apr 28, 2004

Frank, As another New Yorker I know what you mean! What really burns me is the property taxes in this state. I pay over $16K for my house and antique shop. My taxes on my house and land if they were in PA would be about 1/6th. of what I pay here! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Plus if they weren't high enough already, the town goes and raises the assessment! On my antique shop which I paid $215k for 5 years ago just got reassessed at over $503K /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif they raised the assessment over $287k /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif But when I asked how do you come up with that # and what they used for comp's, they have no answer! I told them get their check book out, and I'll gladly sell it for that price! If they don't lower the assessment back to where it was, I'll be forced to sell it! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I just can't afford to pay over $20k a year in property taxes! and then the towns and state wonder why all the businesses are leaving. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif They just don't get it /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

fivestring · Apr 28, 2004

"At all levels, government is looking for more revenue and decreasing services. Where is the money going? They certainly aren't giving additional services back to the citizens that pay the taxes !!" 

Where is the money going, you ask?
Administrative costs.
One only needs to look at funding for school systems to see this.

"MYTH: The rich pay little in taxes.

This myth, more than any other myth, that has created the unwarranted and destructive dissension among the so-called economic classes in this country. The wealthy pay a truly stunning amount of tax, and there are virtually no exceptions. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been misguided."


Gatorboy, that hits the nail on the head.
15% of the people pay 85% of the taxes.
What's worse is, you have another 15% that don't pay at all but are drawing money from the gummit. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

riptides · Apr 28, 2004

Dang Von,

THAT sucks. Assessments are crazy all over. I am having a furball on mine. A 35 percent increase. I see no improvement in any county service or offering for me.

It sucks, people are at the ends of thier ropes, and the system just doesn't get it.

Remember "No new taxes".

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I am planning on seat time next week. What should I do first?

MikePA · Apr 28, 2004

15% of the people pay 85% of the taxes. 
Not sure where this information comes from. The IRS table I am looking at here indicates that in 2001, the top 25% of wage earners paid 82.90% of all federal income taxes.

Bob_Skurka · Apr 28, 2004

Von, your story hit me so close to home I couldn't decide if I should laugh at my situation or cry along with you.

I actually called up my (ultra-liberal) Congressman Peter J Visclosky at his Washington office to discuss an issue where he was asking businesses to pay their "fair share" with one of his new anit-business schemes.

Make a long story short, I got a teeny bopper college girl on the phone to talk to at the good Congressman's office and she began to give me the party line about how this would just "help the big businesses" and the "little guys and regular people" would also benefit. Well I am a little guy and a regular person, but when I boiled it down to her, in simple language using monosylables so she could understand and talking real s-l-o-w so she got all my words into her pony-tailed bubble head, she actually agreed with me that the "big businesses" would end up with a lot more costs, and WOW TO HER SURPRISE, the "little guys" would also end up with a lot more costs, and WOW TO HER SURPRISE, both the big and little businesses would probably pass on the costs to "regular people" who would WOW TO HER SURPRISE end up paying more. And GEE, IT REALLY DIDN'T HELP MUCH at all but the government got more taxes and more regulations and then they got to hire more people to police those regulations to make sure they got more taxes. . .

It doesn't even matter what the actual issue is, the fact is that someone else thinks they are entitled to your money and they presume that you are better able to pay for it than they are.

Bob_Skurka · Apr 28, 2004

MikePA, you are using incomplete data by only using federal data. Add state taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, local income taxes, and the % the so-called wealthy pay begins to really climb.

Gatorboy · Apr 28, 2004

Good source for information Mike. I see that over 1/2 of the taxes (53.25%) are paid by the top 5% of wage-earners.

MikePA · Apr 28, 2004

MikePA, you are using incomplete data by only using federal data. 
I agree, however, gathering the state and local information is a bit of a problem. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I'm not sure there is a central location for all this information. I look at the federal figures as the minimum % the so-called wealthy pay.

milkman · Apr 28, 2004

When are our politicians going to wake up and realize that "charity" starts at home and start taking care of some of our needs here. 

reminded me of a bumber sticker that said "Regeim change starts at home." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bcarter · Apr 28, 2004

Taxes... Where Will It End? 

Like this:

Internal Revenue Service Form 1040

Line 1: Enter Total Income: $__________
Line 2: Tax Due (Enter Amount from Line 1):$___________

OkeeDon · Apr 28, 2004

Bob, thinking about sales taxes, remember that the rich pay sales taxes on their toys, but still have plenty of money left over. The poor, on the other hand, spend all their money on necessities. In other words, the percentage of their income on which taxes must be included is much higher for the poor than for the rich. This also includes taxes like license fees, excise taxes, etc.

In the case of property taxes, any amount you pay over the amount for basic shelter, which is all the poor can afford, is totally voluntary on your part.

I'm not criticizing people for working hard and having surplus cash -- I do, too -- but I remember where I came from, and think about where I could be if I hadn't had some strokes of luck along the way, along with my hard work. My Dad was smarter than me and worked harder than me, but life conspired against him, and he never got those breaks. He died young (47) from an accident while doing an odd job to try to scrape up a little more cash.