Milo
Platinum Member
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Isn't Mobil 1 Extended Performance class IV PAO?
Synthetic Engine Oil Base Stocks
- Thread starter DeereMann
- Start date
- Views: 11568
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DeereMann
Platinum Member
That I do not know - but - I doubt it from what I read in BITOG forum. I googled PAO Motor Oils and all I got back was some weird specialty chemical company outfits for app. 2x the price being charged by the majors for their quasi-synthetics.
Again, nothing wrong with major oil co. synthetics - except - they aren't manufactured gaseous synthetics. They are severely treated crude oil. The only real PAO advantage is they last some % longer & stay cleaner (degrade less).
It just irks me, is all.
TRC doesn't seem widely distributed up here. I've heard of their products, and nothing bad that I recall, but I have no direct experience.
Petro Canada's Duron line seems to have a good rep, and is noted for their wide viscosity range, 5w or 0w40 products.
Diesel Engine Oils, DURON-E | Petro-Canada
Rgds, D.
It's hard to go wrong with a good high quality base stock. While I struggle to put a contribution percentage on it, my gut feel is that the additive pack probably has more to do with the longevity issue than the base stock....... this is where I'd want to hear from dnewton3.....
I can't bring myself to leave an oil in place for 25,000 miles, so I like the way Amsoil presents their motor oil options..... kind of goes back to the olde Sears catalogue.... Good/Better/Best. If I don't push the OCI out, then the Good oil option is a nice price point.
As I recall..... T6 usually tests well in most respects, and does a good job of retaining TBN.
Rgds, D.
cowpie1
Silver Member
The "original" synthetics were technically made from whale blubber oil in the 1800's. It is generally accepted that the first synthesized hydrocarbons were developed by Friedel and Crafts in 1877 using Aluminum TriChloride as the catalyst. The first official PAO was developed in Zurich, Switzerland in 1937. Motul marketed the first consumer synthetic for N. America in the 1966. Sorry Al, Amsoil was not the first. So much for truth in advertising.
As to whether a Group IV PAO is better than a Group III synthetic is almost picking at details that would only show themselves in a lab setting. Group III synthetics, or faux synthetics the purists call them, offer similar performance to Group IV PAO base stocks.
Performance of Base Oils and Future Trends - The Evolution of Base Oil Technology - Part 3
And the one thing that gets rarely discussed in all these synthetic oil discussions, is that the base stock is one thing, but the additive package of the oil can make or break any good base stock. The add pack can make up to 25% of a typical bottled oil or lube. A lousy add pack can make the best synthetic perform worse than a great petroleum base stock with a killer add pack.
What Goes Into an Oil: Additives - The Motor Oil Evaluator
And what is a Group V? Anything that doesn't fall into Groups I thru IV.
API Base Oil Definitions | Global Industrial Solutions
Personally, I like a blend of Group III and Group IV synthetics. They offer the best of both worlds. I get some great Group III/IV oils with exceptional additive packages from Schaeffer Oil, and it is delivered free of charge to me, along with free oil sample kits and analysis, at similar to lower cost than picking up a synthetic at Walmart. I am not into spending my dollars to have major name oils use it to support NASCAR and other uses. I want a quality oil at a reasonable cost. Fancy marketing and "official oil of..." type of stuff doesn't impress me.
As to whether a Group IV PAO is better than a Group III synthetic is almost picking at details that would only show themselves in a lab setting. Group III synthetics, or faux synthetics the purists call them, offer similar performance to Group IV PAO base stocks.
Performance of Base Oils and Future Trends - The Evolution of Base Oil Technology - Part 3
And the one thing that gets rarely discussed in all these synthetic oil discussions, is that the base stock is one thing, but the additive package of the oil can make or break any good base stock. The add pack can make up to 25% of a typical bottled oil or lube. A lousy add pack can make the best synthetic perform worse than a great petroleum base stock with a killer add pack.
What Goes Into an Oil: Additives - The Motor Oil Evaluator
And what is a Group V? Anything that doesn't fall into Groups I thru IV.
API Base Oil Definitions | Global Industrial Solutions
Personally, I like a blend of Group III and Group IV synthetics. They offer the best of both worlds. I get some great Group III/IV oils with exceptional additive packages from Schaeffer Oil, and it is delivered free of charge to me, along with free oil sample kits and analysis, at similar to lower cost than picking up a synthetic at Walmart. I am not into spending my dollars to have major name oils use it to support NASCAR and other uses. I want a quality oil at a reasonable cost. Fancy marketing and "official oil of..." type of stuff doesn't impress me.
cowpie1
Silver Member
Want a really long OEM recommended OCI? Detroit Diesel has a recommended oil change interval of... (drum roll please).... 50,000 miles or 1000 hrs on it's DD15 truck engine. Chevron even proved the point by taking their Delo 400 LE engine oil out to 70,000 mile / 1400 hrs on these engines before the oil started to get to low end limits specified by Detroit.
OP
DeereMann
Platinum Member
Thanks, cowpie1.
There are a number of BITOG forum gang that go for Walmart house brand synthetic (Super Tech) for same reasons you state (no sponsor markups), I think some of them did OCI analysis and had good results.
Then again, the 'ol whale blubber oil was tried 'n true! Except the human-to-whale ratio got out of whack. :laughing:
What I was really looking for is optimal combination(s) of base oil film strength & additive pack for cleanliness for the money. It used to be PAO did that for you (with diester added to solubilize the additive pack). Then all hades broke loose in the marketer area. :duh:
On my cars this weekend I switched from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil (Shell) Platinum, if nothing more than Wally World had it for a couple bucks less per 5 qt. jug. I read it is highly respected on BITOG forum. $22.66/5qt PP vs. $26.68/5qt Mobil 1. btw, Super Tech Synthetic is $17.47/5qt.
As for diesel engine oils for our tractors, we have Mobil 1 Turbodiesel or Shell Rotella T6 to choose from. Either are fine to me. Having worked for Mobil and knowing the industrial lubricant side is their speciality, I typically use their oil. I used to use Delvac 1, but retail outlets don't carry it.
There are a number of BITOG forum gang that go for Walmart house brand synthetic (Super Tech) for same reasons you state (no sponsor markups), I think some of them did OCI analysis and had good results.
Then again, the 'ol whale blubber oil was tried 'n true! Except the human-to-whale ratio got out of whack. :laughing:
What I was really looking for is optimal combination(s) of base oil film strength & additive pack for cleanliness for the money. It used to be PAO did that for you (with diester added to solubilize the additive pack). Then all hades broke loose in the marketer area. :duh:
On my cars this weekend I switched from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil (Shell) Platinum, if nothing more than Wally World had it for a couple bucks less per 5 qt. jug. I read it is highly respected on BITOG forum. $22.66/5qt PP vs. $26.68/5qt Mobil 1. btw, Super Tech Synthetic is $17.47/5qt.
As for diesel engine oils for our tractors, we have Mobil 1 Turbodiesel or Shell Rotella T6 to choose from. Either are fine to me. Having worked for Mobil and knowing the industrial lubricant side is their speciality, I typically use their oil. I used to use Delvac 1, but retail outlets don't carry it.
OP
DeereMann
Platinum Member
Thanks, cowpie1.
There are a number of BITOG forum gang that go for Walmart house brand synthetic (Super Tech) for same reasons you state (no sponsor markups), I think some of them did OCI analysis and had good results.
Then again, the 'ol whale blubber oil was tried 'n true! Except the human-to-whale ratio got out of whack. :laughing:
What I was really looking for is optimal combination(s) of base oil film strength & additive pack for cleanliness for the money. It used to be PAO did that for you (with diester added to solubilize the additive pack). Then all hades broke loose in the marketer area. :duh:
On my cars this weekend I switched from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil (Shell) Platinum, if nothing more than Wally World had it for a couple bucks less per 5 qt. jug. I read it is highly respected on BITOG forum. $22.66/5qt PP vs. $26.68/5qt Mobil 1. btw, Super Tech Synthetic is $17.47/5qt.
As for diesel engine oils for our tractors, we have Mobil 1 Turbodiesel or Shell Rotella T6 to choose from. Either are fine to me. Having worked for Mobil and knowing the industrial lubricant side is their speciality, I typically use their oil. I used to use Delvac 1, but retail outlets don't carry it.
There are a number of BITOG forum gang that go for Walmart house brand synthetic (Super Tech) for same reasons you state (no sponsor markups), I think some of them did OCI analysis and had good results.
Then again, the 'ol whale blubber oil was tried 'n true! Except the human-to-whale ratio got out of whack. :laughing:
What I was really looking for is optimal combination(s) of base oil film strength & additive pack for cleanliness for the money. It used to be PAO did that for you (with diester added to solubilize the additive pack). Then all hades broke loose in the marketer area. :duh:
On my cars this weekend I switched from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil (Shell) Platinum, if nothing more than Wally World had it for a couple bucks less per 5 qt. jug. I read it is highly respected on BITOG forum. $22.66/5qt PP vs. $26.68/5qt Mobil 1. btw, Super Tech Synthetic is $17.47/5qt.
As for diesel engine oils for our tractors, we have Mobil 1 Turbodiesel or Shell Rotella T6 to choose from. Either are fine to me. Having worked for Mobil and knowing the industrial lubricant side is their speciality, I typically use their oil. I used to use Delvac 1, but retail outlets don't carry it.
cowpie1
Silver Member
Yeah, the Walmart stuff is, or at least has been, primarily blended by Warren oil, a very reputable blender of base oils and additive packages. Truth be told, most all the oil base stocks are made by a few companies, and the additive packages are put together by a small group also. Shell, in fact, makes almost 100% of the Group II an Group II+ mineral oil base stocks for N. America. Infineum makes the lion's share of all additive packages that get blended in N. America. Chevron was the leader behind the Group III synthetic game. Mobil has been the largest producer of Group IV PAO base stocks. Most of what is put in a bottle, jug, or drum comes from these limited suppliers. There are a few other players out there, but they only have a limited part of the entire market. And the classifications that any oil has to meet is pretty restrictive in what you can do when blending. API CJ-4, SN, ILSAC GF-5, and others, all have very tight tolerances in what they will allow a blender to do and still remain in spec.
In essence, buy a quality oil that meets the spec you need, at the best price you can find, and enjoy your life.
In essence, buy a quality oil that meets the spec you need, at the best price you can find, and enjoy your life.
OP
DeereMann
Platinum Member
Thought the main additive supplier in U.S. was Lubrizol? Or did they get bought out by a mega-corp like everybody else?