Sump discharge advice wanted

[tkappeler]

Our sump pump typically runs only during the winter months or when the water softener recharges. We do not have public sewer and do not really want to put it into septic field. Unfortunately, our yard is pretty **** flat after the first 50 feet or so from the house. We have a dry creek bed about 200' back from the house and would really like to get the discharge back to there.

During our home build, we used 150' of soft discharge lines but they froze up and I had to just use 50 and direct it to the side yard, which then turned into a snow covered swampy area until spring. I could put a hard discharge underground but it would only be about 6" below grade or it will be below the creek bed in the back. I am concerned about freezing and having the water back up.

Any suggestions on how to handle the discharge? Regrading the entire back yard is not really an options as it would take about 70 triaxles to adequately regrde the entire back. I could dig a dry well and line with rock but the high water table will probably keep it filled on it's own and then I would be back to the freezing issue.

I'm stumped.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I agree this is a challenge.

I buried my sump pump discharge pipe to go under a driveway near the corner of the house. On the other side of the drive there is a shallow open trench that flows away about 150 feet where it mostly goes flat.

In the winter the underground pipe froze. So I cut the pipe coming out of the house, put in a no hub fitting and directed the water away from the house and drive the best I could. Then when things thawed I reconnected to the buried pipe with another no hub.

My sump runs all year so it was a benefit to do it this way. Even though this doesn't totally solve your problem it could reduce the amount of water that builds up.

If you want to pursue this further or want a picture, let me know.

Hopefully someone else will have a better idea.

 

[dave1949]

Maybe some 2" closed cell 4x8 foam boards covering the discharge pipe for 24' or 32' beginning at the house. Set the pipe as deep as you can, fill along the pipe sides, lay foam length ways centered on the pipe. Layout 8' to 10' wide 6 mil black poly sheeting to cover the foam. This will keep the soil dry around the pipe and foam which helps prevent cold penetrating the ground via moisture.

Cover the foam as deep as you can without it looking bad or odd. That will give you some freeze protection, possibly enough for your location. For insurance against freeze ups you could install one of those heater hoses inside the drain pipe, but only power it when there is a cold snap.

At the end of the insulated pipe transition to an open shallow swale that leads to the dry creek. Way back when you were clearing the lot, tearing down the old house, etc., there was talk of a water garden.

 

[oosik]

What dave1949 recommends is a good answer - if possible. Remember, if the line from the house to the discharge point is a continual slope there will be no standing water to freeze. The slope of the discharge line only has to be sufficient to allow the water to flow.

 

[tkappeler]

Maybe some 2" closed cell 4x8 foam boards covering the discharge pipe for 24' or 32' beginning at the house. Set the pipe as deep as you can, fill along the pipe sides, lay foam length ways centered on the pipe. Layout 8' to 10' wide 6 mil black poly sheeting to cover the foam. This will keep the soil dry around the pipe and foam which helps prevent cold penetrating the ground via moisture.

Cover the foam as deep as you can without it looking bad or odd. That will give you some freeze protection, possibly enough for your location. For insurance against freeze ups you could install one of those heater hoses inside the drain pipe, but only power it when there is a cold snap.

At the end of the insulated pipe transition to an open shallow swale that leads to the dry creek. Way back when you were clearing the lot, tearing down the old house, etc., there was talk of a water garden.

Yes, we would still like to have a water garden and might consider the sump discharging into that. I think we will have to see how well digging goes and how high water table fills the pond. We would have to use a liner or it will be just mud and then worry about hydraulic pressure from ground water seeping behind the liner. New areas for me so mainly my speculation at this point.

I am also thinking of a Tee that I could shut off the long level portion when it freezes up and divert to a dry sump in an area that still has slope.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Have you ever considered just dumping the sump pump discharge into the sewer?

 

[tkappeler]

Have you ever considered just dumping the sump pump discharge into the sewer?

No public sewer and not sure I want all that water going to septic not to mention the salt water from softener discharge

 

[dave1949]

Yes, we would still like to have a water garden and might consider the sump discharging into that. I think we will have to see how well digging goes and how high water table fills the pond. We would have to use a liner or it will be just mud and then worry about hydraulic pressure from ground water seeping behind the liner. New areas for me so mainly my speculation at this point.

I am also thinking of a Tee that I could shut off the long level portion when it freezes up and divert to a dry sump in an area that still has slope.

Spreading it around via a tee would help.

The 6 mil black poly is much more resistant to breaking down than the clear Visqueen types. I have some that is 9 years old and still in decent shape. In the ground of course, no sunlight.

Another benefit to the plastic is it holds enough moisture to help keep grass from browning out above it even though there isn't much soil depth.

There are high compression versions of the foam board if you are worried about driving over it with your tractor. I wouldn't worry about a riding mower.

 

[dodge man]

Unless you can bury it deep or it doesn't get very cold, its going to freeze, insulation won't help. Ours just dumps into our septic, it doesn't seem to hurt anything with the salt in it.

 

[Fossil Farm]

Depending on the grade you have to work with from the house to the creek bed, you could put in a dry well or catch basin and then run a 4 inch field tile line ( solid or perforated -slotted not round holes ) to the creek. If you can keep 2 feet or more of cover on the tile line, you should be fine in most cases. If you use poly pipe, use a section (10 foot) of SDR 35 as an outlet pipe since the poly deteriorates with UV light. Or depending on your water table, run a 4 inch perforated to lower the water table and run the sump water in a second solid tile line alongside it. Since the winter is the most problematic, maybe build a foam cover for the catch basin just to use in the winter to reduce freezing problems. The grade (or fall) from the house to the creek bed is the most critical part for gravity flow. Don't think you want to get into an outside pumphouse situation for such a small amount of water. Good luck.

 

[jaotguy]

step one ... make sure the hose inside goes UP higher than the creek level ... in stall a 1 way valve at the pump base .... add a T inside with a shutoff that goes through wall at a height higher than the snow level ( backup in case anything freezes ) ...

bury the pipe 4-5 feet deep until it gets near the creek ... then raise it up till it is about a foot( or so )higher than the creek bed ... make the end of the pipe slope down towards the bed , then slip a 4" piece of pipe over it before the last 10 feet to reach the creek .....


the pump should run , dump the water into the bigger pipe ( sloped and open towards the creek) and everything should drain that is exposed to the cold ... the 1 way stops it from back feeding into the house when the creek rises .. you can also add some 1-2" blue /pink Styrofoam above the pipe to 4" junction for added freezing protection....

 

[tkappeler]

Unfortunately, the creek bed is only 1' below current grade. There is no way to dig down far enough and still have it come out above creek level. Although officially it is a creek, it is dry 90% but is the lowest spot on the property and cuts across several of our properties. If I want to take the tractor back there, I drive through it. No bridge over it.

 

[radioman]

At a cabin I used to stay in, I just ran gray water to a drywell. I dug to the frost line from where it exit cabin and dug a trench sloping away from house and then dug a drywell in the end. All of this is below the frost line. Works great even in middle of the cold winter in NYS.

In your case, if all other options is not viable, then you need to have TWO pumps. first one you already have. pump high as you can and slope enough to get away from house into a enclosed well with pump 4 ft below the frost line. IE if frost line is 40 inches . you need pump 4 ft and 40 inches from surface. Then pump up as high as you can but not above ground and drain to another drywell. I will not tell you to use drycreek or whatever the rest is up to you. NO checkvalve please in the second pump. this way water will never remain in the pipes and nothing can freeze.

 

[jaotguy]

strike two coming up ... same setup as before ... 4' down all the way to the edge of the creek ...

then dig a deeper big pit and put in a big plastic garbage pail .. drill holes in the bottom , fill with crushed gravel ... run the black poly pipe across the top ( just under the lid ) ... drill a couple of 3/8" holes in the pipe where it goes under the lid ....
turn the black poly pipe upwards ( like a fountain ) and leave about 1 foot exposed .....

theory : pump pushes the water to the creek and up the fountain end .... any remaining excess remaining water drains back down the pipe below the freezing zone and empties into the small dry well and can't freeze ... and most drains out the holes in the bottom of the big plastic garbage pail

 

[Looking4new]

My sump line pumps to the rafters (upper floor joists) in the basement and then a 25' run down hill ( 1" fall every 10') and through the outside wall and dumps into the top of a a 55 gallon barrel (sitting above grade). The bottom of the barrel has a 3" hole in it and 3" black PVC pipe attached and the pipe runs above grade (on top of the grass) to a swale 30' away. Remember that running water wont freeze and the pipe is never full. This setup has been going like this for 20 years and has never froze. My winter time temperatures are usually at least a month of -40F and winter lasts for up to 6 months.

 

[wjmst]

Also remember that salt water has a lower freezing point than regular water. I don't know how much salt is being pumped out of your conditioner in the water, but probably enough to kill grass or other vegetation.