Suggestions for new deck railings

[afcaafma]

I am planning on refurbishing my home's pressure treated deck soon. I will flip the deck boards that are in good shape and replace those that need it. But the deck railings are in very bad shape and I was planning on replacing them with a vinyl or composite railing system. From what I've seen, most systems allow you to slip a new, hollow post over the old 4X4 PT railing post, cut a section of vinyl/composite railing to fit between two posts and then make the attachments.

I went to the local building supplier (not HD or Lowes) and got literature on several different railing systems. But I would like to get suggestions and pros/cons from some of you who have actually done this job before I make a final decision. For example, if you chose a railing that was white in color, how much maintenance have you found was required? Would you have gone with a different color? How was the process of cutting and attaching the railings - was it easier or harder than you thought? How sturdy were the railings? How did the railings work for the stairs on your deck? Was it more or less expensive than you thought? What were the names of the manufacturers you researched, and why did you go with your specific manufacturer?

Any answers you have to these questions, as well as any other comments you might have, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[studor]

I did a fair amount of searching and used a vinyl product for capping some posts on one end of the deck for privacy but for the rest of the deck went with an aluminum product by Regal Railing and tempered glass. I found the aluminum systems to be easier to do (starting with an unrailed deck) as there was no need to cut in the posts etc. It is very strong bolted to the deck and there are outside reinforcing brackets as well. Price wise the aluminum and vinyl were about the same when you figured it all out. JMHO

 

[Reverend Blair]

I build decks and sometimes I write about building decks. I've seen and tested a lot of products. When it comes to vinyl and composite products, my advice is that you should run the other way. Some PVC products are a bit better, but not that much.

The big problem is that all of these products expand and contract much more than wood when the temperature changes. In addition to that, I've never seen a composite that withstood weather well over a long period.

My personal feeling is that you should go with wood. Use pressure treated, make sure to put end cut treatment on any cuts, and just let it weather. It's a little more work, but it fits with a wood deck better and the expansion/contraction rates are the same.

If you have your heart set on something easy to install and near-zero maintenance, go with an aluminum product, as studor suggested. They are easy to install and look clean for years.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm not a big fan of composite materials for decks. They cost allot more money and require a fair bit of extra material to make up for the lack of structural integrity of the composite. Since you said that you are going to reuse and replace the existing wood, that's already taken care of.

I'm thinking that you are looking for a way to make the railing stand out and do something unique, or at least different then the square 2x2 PT wood spindles. I like to use PT 4x4 for the posts and bolt them onto the sides of the joists. I notch the post so that it is 2 inches thick and overhangs on top of the decking 1 1/2 inch. Then I like to notch the posts on the inside to hold a PT 2x4 on the top and the bottom. I leave a few inches under the 2x4 for drainage and for your toes to fit under it when leaning on the railing. With the top 2x4 notched, I can use either a PT 2x4 or for more of a shelf, a PT 2x6 for the top of the railing.

This is pretty much how I do all my railings. Then it's up to the client to decide on what they want to spend on spindles. It's hard to beat those PT 2x2's at a buck each, but both Home Depot and Lowes sell some very nice aluminum spindles with black paint powder coated on them for about $5 each. I personally like to use half inch pipe. One house that I dd quite a few years ago was with half inch copper. I never saw it after it changed color to a greenish patina, but was told it was amazing. I've thought about grey PVC conduit in Schedule 80 for spindles and aluminum conduit, but haven't used them yet. Another idea that I'm seriously considering for the spindles on a bridge over my spillway is either #5 or #6 rebar. #4 might work too, but I've only seen the thicker rebar used before.

On a gazebo that I'm hoping to build this fall, I'm using cedar logs for posts and square metal tubing for the spindles attached to channel iron for the bottom and sides, and a special metal top. The channel will be drilled on the sides and bolted to the cedar posts. There's more to it, but until I actually build it, I'm just guessing what it will take and how it will look until I actually do it.

Cable looks nice, as does metal panels used for pouring concrete. I like the idea of being able to cut out a circle in the panels and inserting something. Around here, you'll see a five point star most of the time, but just about anything would look nice.

Good luck and have fun,
Eddie

 

[Reverend Blair]

Sounds like you do some nice work, Eddy. I like the idea of the copper.

Most of my railings are done the way you describe with the posts and rails...pretty much like building a fence. With some of the fancier places I put the posts inside the joist box before the decking goes on. I still notch them for strength though.

Something I've done a couple of times is to build flower boxes into the railings. It doesn't stand out much in the winter, but in the spring and summer it really pops.

The other thing that works well is just dadoing the posts and rails, then dropping lattice in. It's cheap, quick, and easy, looks good, and a lot of people just plant vines around the deck and let them climb the lattice. Check your local codes, though...it's not up to par in some places because it's considered too easy to climb.

About the coolest railing I ever did was for an artist. He sketched out animal silouettes on plywood, we cut them out with a jigsaw, then we mounted them in dado cuts in the posts and rails. Then he went back and painted them. Very cool when it was done, but the cutting took forever.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks Reverend. Most of the time I just use the 2x2 spindles, which are fine, but kind of boring for me. Of couse, it's not my deck and I'm not living with it, nor the bill for materials. When I get one of those jobs where the client wants something unique or special, I get all excited. Of course, the cost difference is always significant, so it rarely happens, but I still hope for those jobs.

I never thought about cutting out plywood. With 3/4 PT plywood, I bet you could come up with something really unique!!!

I tried the posts on the inside on a deck that I did last year, but the homeowner didn't like it. I've seen pictures of it, but never actually done them that way yet.

I'm starting a deck on Tuesday that will be 12 x 30 with a metal roof over it. They want a table built into the space between two of the posts, which is something new for me. I tried to talk them into granite or tile, but they just want 5/4 PT decking to span the distance between the posts so they can sit there on barstools, or entertain friends. No railing on this job since the top of the deck will just be six inches from the dirt. My biggest challenge is going to be lowering the dirt so that I can get the joists on concrete without touching dirt. Not a big deal most of the year, but we're in a heat wave right now and I don't like to dig with a shovel in 100 degree temps.

The next job is a super fancy bathroom remodel, so I'll just deal with this job and them be working indoors for the month of July.

Eddie

 

[ToadHill]

You don't say where you are from but I'll tell you if your winters get cold and you use vinyl make sure the fasteners that attach the rails to the posts are metal. The plastic fasteners break very easilly in cold weather.

 

[bhostasa]

As Eddie mentioned, stainless steel cables are a interesting way to go. I had the same situation as you last summer (replacing wooden deck boards and updating railing) and went with the cables. They sell systems for it, I was quoted about $3k for material, but I just used cable and turnbuckles from the Depot and did it for about $1200.

We wanted something that was safe because the deck is about 12' off the ground on one side but we also wanted an unobstructed view. We like it. Here's a couple of pictures...

 

[NSBound]

We wanted something that was safe because the deck is about 12' off the ground on one side but we also wanted an unobstructed view.

I **love** that look with the cables, but as the Reverend said earlier, that one wouldn't survive the Building Inspector here, as it would be too easy for kids (or anyone, for that matter) to get a foothold and climb it and fall over.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Most of the time I just use the 2x2 spindles, which are fine, but kind of boring for me. Of couse, it's not my deck and I'm not living with it, nor the bill for materials.

Yup. Likely 80% of the railings I do are like that. Another 10% are machine-turned balusters that have almost as little character as the 2x2's.

It isn't my deck though. It's never my deck. I don't even have a deck. I have plans for a deck, just as soon as I'm not so tired from building decks, but I don't actually have a deck of my own.

They want a table built into the space between two of the posts, which is something new for me. I tried to talk them into granite or tile, but they just want 5/4 PT decking to span the distance between the posts so they can sit there on barstools, or entertain friends.

I built a couple of those at bars here just after they banned indoor smoking here. There was a bit of a boom, but I'd rather be able to shoot pool with a smoke in my mouth than have the money I made from the smoking ban. One bad habit should augment the next, after all.

Anyway, make sure that you run 2x4's under the table top (kind of a mini joist box) or it will sag in the middle. You wouldn't think there'd be much of a live load on a table, but people tend to lean when they sit on barstools.

I'm starting a deck on Tuesday that will be 12 x 30 with a metal roof over it

When you build a deck with a roof, do you run the posts up from the ground and just notch the deck into the posts (45 degree support members with scarf cuts etc) ? It's the way I prefer to do it...a little more work, but it's stronger and looks better, I think. The inspectors here don't like it much though. They want you to frame it like a house instead, preferably with metal brackets at the joints.

It's gotten to the point where I just apply for a variance when I file for the permit even though the way I do it is within code. You'd think these guys had never seen carpentry before.

You don't say where you are from but I'll tell you if your winters get cold and you use vinyl make sure the fasteners that attach the rails to the posts are metal. The plastic fasteners break very easilly in cold weather.

Ha. If you want to see cold, come visit me in January. At -25 or so, those plastic fasteners snap all by themselves. The vinyl contracts and pulls on them, and they just snap. At -40 they kind of explode.

If you hang them kind of loose to avoid that, they expand and squish in the summer when it gets hot, then deform and crack at the first little frost.

Of course most people's fore bearer's weren't dim enough to move someplace where it hits +32 celcius (around 100 farenheit) in the summer and -40 (same on both scales) in the winter. The first week of October is always nice though.