Suggestions for a good synthetic motor oil for my ck30

[Donnyj]

Dargo, I just wanted to say thanks for the link. Seems like some good reading. Hopefully it will answere some questions I might have.

 

[VictorW]

Dargo,
Thanks for the book link. I will read it fully. Any information helps to make a good decision.
I have seen and used Amsoil before although it was many years ago. It's harder to find where I live. You mention, Redline. I have never seen that brand. Who makes it? Maybe that will help me find it.
I do understand the race engine results. High rpm's, temps., and horsepower with frequent oil changes. Not to totally disagree about the oil protection, but that is different than the engine doing 2000-2500 rpm's for long periods with less frequent oil changes. Maybe the same results would be achieved. Maybe somebody has done diesel farm engine or even truck tractor/heavy equipment oil tests. My new search in my spare time.
Thanks for your opinions and experiences.

 

[Dargo]

Thanks guys. I do apologize for sounding irked, but I felt that I was being misinterpreted and some thought that I was pushing a particular agenda. I was only wanting to relay my experiences and let it be known that I have no vested interest in what oil anyone uses.

VictorW does make a good point in that is could be a different story in slow moving, but hard pulling, diesel engines. I am not aware of any non-biased study or real life comparison on rebuilds under similar circumstances for them. Maybe someone may find something on them. Until then, hammer down, drive it like you stole it!

 

[kentrodngun]

Dargo,
I have seen and used Amsoil before although it was many years ago. It's harder to find where I live. You mention, Redline. I have never seen that brand. Who makes it? Maybe that will help me find it.

Victor, I find both at my local High Performance Machine Shop. A lot of people in the racing game like to use either brand.

 

[IH3444]

Dargo, thanks also for the link. I've read quite a bit, and the oil charts at the end do show by numbers that Rotella T looks to be good, but comming from a lab background, I would not question your results. If Walmart Synthetic test as good as Rotella T synthetic, then that's good enough for me. I've been using the NH 10-30 Gold Premium oil for my TC48, and changing it every 50 hours. Just because I don't like it's numbers on paper. It's weak on the TBN number, an 8 I believe. Was going to dump it at 25 hours, but it was still clean as a whistle, so I left it in for the first 50 hours. I have some Mobil 1 5-40 diesel motor oil I bought, and think I'm going to use that. Thanks for doing a lot of "wet benching", and posting your results.

 

[DK35vince]

I have looked several times at our local Wal-Mart at the Super Tech synthetic motor oil. Certified for gasoline engines is all I have seen. Don't seem to carry any for diesel engines ..

 

[IH3444]

DK35,I thought that's what Dargo's results were based on, gasoline engines. I have read also the Super Tech Synthetic labels, and never saw that they were for diesels either. The Rotella T numbers look good on paper, and the guys over at Bobistheoilguy.com talk up the Rotella T synthetic like it's the golden, lower priced group III alterntive to M1 5-40 truck diesel oil. I'm sure you could run the synthetic super tech in a diesel, just not for extended drains. Cheaper that the Rotella, but evidently without any benifiets. I'm sure Dargo is right about Shell being great a marketing the Rotella.

 

[NewToy]

I'd say! They are marketing the heck out of an average oil and making billions by doing so.

I seriously doubt that Shell Oil makes "Billions" from the Rotella line.

 

[hsdfcu]

Dargo- Thanks for the old link. Welcome to 1997!

 

[IslandTractor]

Now that I have had a chance to look at the "Motor Oil Bible" I must comment that in my opinion it is a good example of the WORST pseudo scientific garbage that gets promulgated on the internet by self declared "experts".

First, the guy who writes it gives us no idea at all of his credentials or what he bases his "bible" on. Second, while he does a relatively nice job of defining certain common terms used in measuring oil qualities, he just plain makes up stuff (like his ranking score) and the whole bible is essentially a bunch of his unsubstantiated opinions. As best I can tell, he has no real expertise and has simply collected some reasonable definitions (undoubtedly available in any real textbook on the matter) and then lept off into unsubstantiated territory with his own opinions.

A book like this would be useful if written by a petrochemical engineer/chemist or by someone with real world lubrication testing experience. The author gives no suggestion at all of professional or even amateur experience doing anything except collecting definitions and collating manufacturers motor oil specifications.

There is nothing wrong with collecting the data and presenting it in a nice table. I think that is useful. However, he then develops, from zero empirical data and without a hint of validation studies, a "rank order score" that purports to show why some oils are better than others. That is completely bogus.

His score looks impressive until you look at it carefully:

VI + Flash + (20 x HT/HS) + (2 x TBN) - (Pour Point) - (3 x NOACK)= Ranking Score
​

For any "rank order score" to be valid it must be based on some empiric testing or at the very least be based on expert review and assessment with appropriate weighting of any "score" components. He doesn't do anything like that, he just arbitrarily makes up a formula and applies it. His formula grossly overrates some elements and underrates others. For example, the flash point score is typically a large number 400-500 with quite a bit of variation between oils while the Total Base Number is a small number with small variations (5-13). His rank score over emphasizes the flash point and minimizes the other components. He also just plain makes up some of the data when the manufacturer does not provide it. Read his methods section which is on pages 141-143 (and kudos to the author for at least providing an explanation of his baloney scoring system). A simplistic rank score does not take into account whether some of the components represent oil qualities were "more is better" versus "a minimum level is necessary but more is not critical". There are many examples in engineering and the real world where "more" is not better and is either irrelevant or a waste.

The author bizarrely concludes his "motor oil bible" with a diatribe about Jesus (pages 145-150) which is actually longer than his explanation of his vaunted rank scoring system. I believe this is truly "faith based" engineering. I am rather stunned that experienced TBN users rely on this resource.

Are there really no scientifically valid, experienced based real world data on motor oils and tractor diesels??? John Deere and other long term major manufacturers absolutely must have such data, have they not published it? Does the US Military not have publications on oils in diesels? Somebody, please, where is the real data?

 

[AutoUnionTypeC]

I think Island/Ed has the right sort of critical thinking on this subject. If you are going to do oil changes at factory intervals, and I recommend that you do, I wouldn’t get too fancy with the oil you use. Running any true synthetic for 100 hours and then changing it out makes no economic sense. Leaving it in for 200 makes better economic sense but make sure you at least change the oil filter after the first 100. Even then I think you take some risks as there are not a lot of synthetic HD rated diesel oils on the market and even fewer diesel filters designed for extended drains. It's a lot simpler to do extended drains with a gasser, they don't have to worry about soot and sulpher loading. Rotella T synthetic isn't a true syn but it’s what I use in my CK and I change at the factory recommended intervals. It makes the most sense to me as it’s a bit better then a regular dino but is still cheap enough to change out at factory intervals.

Now in my VW TDi I do run a fancy $13.00 a quart 0W-30 from ELF. It meets a stringent VW spec that makes it good out to 30K on changes so long as you’re running ULSD but only 10K if you’re running LSD. Another benefit with it is reduced fuel consumption. I gained about 1.2 to 1.4 mpg when I made the change. As I do about 48K a year so it made good economic sense to use this oil in this application. I use less of it with better fuel economy and I spend less time under my car to boot. Unfortunately this is a medium duty rated oil and I would never consider it in my tractor

Regards, Jamie

 

[Dargo]

Yup, you're right. You should stick to Rotella for your tractor.

 

[AutoUnionTypeC]

Yup, you're right.

Nothing new there; and to think it only took 153 posts on my part for you to catch on.

There may be hope for you yet.

Regards, Jamie

 

[IslandTractor]

Yo Dargo,

If your motor oil bible is the faith based rationale for your choice of synthetic oil then I surely will stick with the Rotella too. However, if you ever come across real world data rather than amateur opinion and hot rod anecdotes to support use of synthetics in tractor diesels please do share it.

 

[Dargo]

However, if you ever come across real world data rather than amateur opinion and hot rod anecdotes to support use of synthetics in tractor diesels please do share it.

Yo, it is my profession to be involved in exactly what breaks down and what does not break down. I have access to hundreds of thousands of actual engine failure records and tear down diagnostics along with the causes of failure. It's part of what I do for a living. However, seeing that your 'professional' opinion is far superior to that database, I have absolutely no reason to share any data with you whatsoever. But, there is nothing from stopping you from buying such a database from my competitors. Several do sell them to insurance companies and venture capitalists groups. It will only cost you a few hundred grand. I'm sure that's nothing for a true 'professional'.

Since you are just so astounding with your scientific analysis and critiques of written journals, I'll just sit back here in my single wide and keep saving up for some hurricane straps and skirting. I'm hoping to have a party when we take the wheels off of the house. Maybe, if I work real hard, I can buy a real tractor as well. We plan to spring for some Vess sodas and pork rinds at the party. Wanna come, or are you too good for us amatures?

Yeah, I can be as sarcastic as you if I really try. All the facts are available for all to see; online, at the bookstores, and at your local library. The nice thing is that you are welcome to use whatever you wish for a lubricant. Heck, I heard sand works well and doesn't sludge.

You can also find plenty of reading at bobistheoilguy.com as well, but you wouldn't like it; he is only a mere amature as well. I believe "skypup" is likely the most educated here on fuels and lubrication, but you wouldn't believe him either. Even though I believe he is a 'professional', he apparently uses words you don't like.

You have a good day now, and thanks for trying to slap me up side of my head for offering my "suggestion for a good synthetic motor oil" for someone's ck30. Silly me, I thought the original poster was asking about a suggestion for a good synthetic oil for his tractor. I didn't know you were going to be here to judge what is amature and what is the correct opinion...

 

[NewToy]

My Farmtrac has a Daedong engine so it's got the heart of a Kioti. I use 5-30 Truck/SUV Mobil 1 in my 1 ton Chevy van. I read the bottle and it's approved by several Diesel engine mfgs. Would this oil be OK to run in the Daedong engine or would a heavier weight be better. I am currently using Rotella synthetic.

Thanks,

John

 

[Highbeam]

Someone... sure likes to slap around good folks here on TBN. Especially when he is wrong about something, look out for the chest thumper.

I am a big fan of mobile 1 synthetics that are rated for the application. The price is good, the oil is good, and it is very available in a pinch. I would not want to use an exotic oil in my tractor and I will still change at the manual's interval. It is just that the synthetic offers potentially better qualities during the 100 hour change interval.

 

[AutoUnionTypeC]

My Farmtrac has a Daedong engine so it's got the heart of a Kioti. I use 5-30 Truck/SUV Mobil 1 in my 1 ton Chevy van. I read the bottle and it's approved by several Diesel engine mfgs. Would this oil be OK to run in the Daedong engine or would a heavier weight be better. I am currently using Rotella synthetic.

Thanks,

John

This would be the better Mobil1 choice: Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40. Mobil states that the 5-30 Truck & SUV is primarily intended for gassers. I'd also look into the Mobil Delvac series of oils.
Regards, Jamie

 

[mrutkaus]

Somehow this comes to mind from the movie "Dr. Strangelove:"

The film opens with a deranged General Ripper declaring a "Code Red", sealing off his airforce base, and ordering a nuclear attack on Russia. When his assistant, RAF Group Captain Mandrake, advises moderation, Ripper replies that he intends to launch a pre-emptive strike to stop a Communist infiltration which is "sapping and impurifying all of our precious bodily fluids."