Suffering...should we be thinking about the bacteria???

[Dadnatron]

As I was perusing literature on effects of cattle saliva on plant growth... (it helps pretty dramatically BTW)... I ran across this article. I thought that perhaps a big kumbaya session was in order and perhaps we could start here. While I won't expect you to read it all... here are a few of the notable 'quotes' from the article.

Essays on Reducing Suffering by Brian Tomasik

- Most insects that are born die before reaching maturity, often in painful ways. From the perspective of reducing insect suffering, it seems good, ceteris paribus, to reduce insect populations. Cattle grazing is one way in which humans affect the world's insect populations on a massive scale.

- However, one might apportion a large amount of ethical importance to the collection of all bacteria and other unicellular organisms that a pasture supports. If one cares about the suffering of bacteria, one should probably also care about the suffering of individual cells within larger animals (including insects and cattle).


How Cattle Grazing Affects Pasture Productivity | Essays on Reducing Suffering

 

[DieselBound]

When the article starts out with "overgrazing" it can only then present (mostly) issues with overgrazing, which is NOT the practice of all cattlemen. I've followed grass-fed rancher folks for some time and have seen a clear win. Perhaps no greater, starker picture is that presented by Allan Savory in his work in Africa:

Reversing Desertification with Livestock - Our World

The cumulative suffering of insects is less in a desertified land, because there's going to be a LOT less insects.

 

[Dadnatron]

But if your cows eat the vegetation which would have ultimately been 'eaten' by indigenous bacteria... are you to blame for their suffering? Nothing sadder than skinny bacteria panhandling on the side of your corpuscles.

 

[DieselBound]

Yeah, the problem with lots of these kinds of "studies" is that they fail to consider what a "normal" population really is/means. EVERYTHING grows until it collapses. Based on this fact I'd have to say that the vegetation is, ultimately, the demise of the bacteria!

Humans are here and have to figure a way to try and work within a balance. Sadly, the notion of perpetual growth on a finite planet, which our human abstract of "economics" relies upon, isn't recognized as also being subject to the laws of nature. Savory and other grass-fed beef folks are closest to being on the path to something that's more akin to "sustainable."

Also in our soils are BAD bacteria. Eventually very little will make it out alive: though bacteria (some) will.

 

[Rustyiron]

I wonder how many of our tax dollars were spent on that drivel?

 

[4get gto]

First global warming now this. When it's going to end?

 

[DieselBound]

Climate change IS real: the ONLY question is that of how humans are affecting/can affect the interval of the glacial periods (we're in an inter-glacial period; the glacial period WILL come, no matter what we do- it's earth's way of re-tilling the soils; this is readily proven through core samples); to state that humans have no affect on the environment is pure ignorance/self-deception.

But for the "report," the problem is that it presents a false premise, one of it being of over-grazing or no-grazing. If one is allowed to have a bad premise blown by them then anything else following can be made to seem sensical. Trees that are pruned tend to produce more fruit. That would be like managed grazing. The alternatives as presented in the "report" is that of either letting the tree grow w/o any management (would it then be just art?) or we cut the tree down to the ground.

 

[plowhog]

I hope global warming is true because I am compassionate about others. Far too many homeless people have been lost from freezing to death in cold climates. Think of the lives saved if the global warming ... gambit ... is true.

For those concerned about deaths of millions of microbes, please write a letter to the leader of North Korea. His rumored atmospheric test of a nuke will blow off the charts many other concerns when it comes to death of microbes.

 

[DieselBound]

I hope global warming is true because I am compassionate about others. Far too many homeless people have been lost from freezing to death in cold climates. Think of the lives saved if the global warming ... gambit ... is true.

For those concerned about deaths of millions of microbes, please write a letter to the leader of North Korea. His rumored atmospheric test of a nuke will blow off the charts many other concerns when it comes to death of microbes.

It's Climate Change. It's a cycle. Warming happens prior to a very, VERY prolonged deep freeze. Might be too much for most people to understand.

As for NK, if you think they are a threat then you're really in the dark (and nicely programmed by the propagandists). Ah, but it's only humor, right!

 

[plowhog]

Those pushing the global warming agenda had to change to "climate change" when temps started to dip. "Climate change" is generic so one can argue for lots of new regulations based on any up or down change in temps. Twice as effective as just ... increasing temps.

For interesting reading, google "Mauder minimum" which occurred in the 1800's. Many scientists think we are entering another one-- which upsets the apple cart about .... global warming. Ooops I mean climate change. :laughing: