subsoiler use

[7520]

I have approx 30 ac of hay field and pasture that has never been plowed or anything. hay production is way down even with lime and fert. would a subsoiler help? how when is the best time to use it. i realiy dont want to tear up the field.how close do you make passes. thanks in advance

 

[Farmwithjunk]

A great deal depends on soil type, structure, and conditions. Around these parts, best time to deep rip is the fall when ground is relatively dry. Subsoilers do their best when they shatter soil rather than simply ripping a groove through the hardpan. That shattering effect doesn't occur when soil is wet and muddy. If all works according to plan, there is just a little disturbance of the surface. Most of the action takes place underground.

In this area, common practice is to rip 30" to 36" apart IF soil conditions are right.

Subsoiling helps in many ways, primarily drainage. Excessive rain water runs THROUGH the ground into the water table, instead of running off. That run-off usually carries away your fertilizer and soil nutrients, as well as some of the top soil. As an added benifit, plants can root deeper once the hardpan is broken. That lets them reach that subsurface moisture in hot dry weather.

Pastures and hayfields are almost always compacted. Animals compact soil worse than tractors and equipment, but even simply running over a hayfield with tractor/mower, tractor/rake, tractor/baler, tractor/wagon, tractor/fertilizer spreader, ect, you're packing the soil more than normal freeze/thaw soil heaving can deal with. Pasture renovators and aerifiers have become popular in recent years. They do SOME of the job, but NOTHING like a deep subsoiling at 10"-12" maybe even 20".

 

[WarrenF]

Good reply FWJ. In this area they not only subsoil....but follow that with plowing. Then fertilizer is is applied in the fall when the ground is worked down for the final time and let lay over the winter.

 

[jimg]

Before ripping the field you might get want to get your county agent involved and do some testing. At least youll have a clear picture of whats wrong.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Before ripping the field you might get want to get your county agent involved and do some testing. At least youll have a clear picture of whats wrong.

That should be SOP in regards to most anything done to crop land, hay ground, even pastures. Soil ph and micro-nutrients play an important role in how plants uses that NP&K available to them. If the ph is off, plants won't even try to use that expensive fertilizer. A GOOD County Agent/AG Extention Service will even be able to accurately gauge to what degree the soil is compacted, if it truely is. Best to go in to things with a game plan and not take pot shots in the dark.

I signed up last night for a UK Dept of Agriculture short course on turf renovation that'll be run by our county AG extention office. Three 2-hour presentations starting Feb 28th. Their testing results can be even more valuable when I'm on the same page as they are. These folks are there for our benifit. Use 'em!

 

[jimg]

Yup! Its surprising though how many (in my area at least) just throw stuff on the field hoping for an intended effect. Given the cost of inputs I think you cant do too much of that!

Wished our county/state had good stuff like your renovation class. Hay field day is about as good as it gets though.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Yup! Its surprising though how many (in my area at least) just throw stuff on the field hoping for an intended effect. Given the cost of inputs I think you cant do too much of that!

Wished our county/state had good stuff like your renovation class. Hay field day is about as good as it gets though.

This is one of those rare moments where "Over-urbanization" is actually of some benefit. We were once a VERY rural area. Tobacco farms and dairy/beef farms with the occasional small acreage owners scattered around. In the last 10 years, this place is turning into subdivisions, "ranchettes", and golf courses. The increase of population and large numbers of 5 and 10 acre horse farms means a lot of tax money from the area and a lot of state AG dept interest in maintaining "good karma" with those folks. So we get all sorts of Univ of Ky programs that weren't available to the farmers until the farmers weren't really farmers any longer (if that makes any sense)

I've been through one of these turf programs already. At the end of each session, there's a 15 to 20 minute Q&A. 9 times out of 10, they'll be more about how to get shed of dandilions in the lawn than about forage crops. sigh.....

Free refreshments afterwards and usually a hat or a calender.

 

[jimg]

>>So we get all sorts of Univ of Ky programs that weren't available to the
>>farmers until the farmers weren't really farmers any longer (if that makes
>> any sense)
I understand that...but it doesnt make any sense. Im in one of those rural areas thats nearly all farms and one county agent. The other agent was recently moved to another county. A few counties up they have plenty of agents/$/programs for ridding the suburban yard of weeds. Glad youre getting some benefit!

 

[7520]

thanks for replys. soil samples have been done. ph in hay fields is good. need lime in pastures. hay fields all in good range of nutriunts. i havent had soil tested for compaction. with all things pointing to good still poor growth. maybe it is type of grass. but i have many differant types. i would like to try a subsoiler because most of my hay field slope towards my pond and that may help with nutriunts running off. would it also help in summer drought?

 

[chh]

If it breaks up the hardpan to let water deeper in the soil profile and promotes root growth it could help some in a drought. I have seen people use subsoilers when the ground was really wetter than it should have been to get the the "shattering" effect run the subsoiler crosswise back across the feild X'ing it. I am not certain that would help or not. The theory they where working on was simply to get the best breakup and aeration that they could. These other guys probably know quite a bit more about it than I do though.

 

[flusher]

I have approx 30 ac of hay field and pasture that has never been plowed or anything. hay production is way down even with lime and fert. would a subsoiler help? how when is the best time to use it. i realiy dont want to tear up the field.how close do you make passes. thanks in advance

My neighbor put in 20 acres of alfalfa last year. He ripped the field early last Sept with a single shank parabolic subsoiler (ripper) using an MF 294 (74hp engine, 56 hp drawbar). The soil was bone dry after 4 months without rain and several months of triple digit temps. That 294 really got a workout.

He ripped the fields on the diagonal to the fence lines on about 3-ft centers. Next he ran a tandem disc over the field several times. Since he planned to used surface irrigation, he used a D7 Cat and a laser leveling box grader to to slope the field.

 

[hudr]

I have a 7 shank ripper that I haven't used in years. I have actually seen better results from using an aerator. A local farm/ranch supply has a 15' Aerway they rent out. I have pulled it over my hay meadows twice a year for the past 3 years and noticed better yields (mostly common bermuda) since doing so. Of course, we also do soil samples and try to keep soil conditions optimal for bermuda. And pulling the Aerway at max angle (make it "till" a little) followed by a 15' chain harrow has certainly helped smooth out the rough spots as well. Our hay cutters used to complain about some of our hay meadows but have quieted down the past couple of years.

 

[brettliddicoat]

hudr do you ever have problems with the tines on the aerway the farm i work for had one and we hated it i would spend 2 hours changing tines every night before i could even start tilling if you are going to subsoil you will need a fairly large tractor i have pulled a 4 shank behind a steiger before and the steiger was working in 4th gear and that is about 2-3 mph i have pulled a 6 shank on the same tractor in 6th gear in soil that wasnt nearly as compacted i would think that the subsoiling will help alot it would be the first step you can aerate but that woulndt be as bennificial as deep ripping you could aerate after you deep rip to kinda help prevent compaction a little also for anyone using aerway do not use gennisis tillage tines the are cast not forged and they are junk we broke like 75% of them in one fall and genn till said they were defective so they sent us a new set those were just as bad for anyone that knows anything about metalurgy forged is far superor to cast

sorry about it being so long

brett

 

[jimg]

Sometime ago I asked a similar question as the original and the answer was renovation doesnt perceptibly effect yield. I think though in the presence of severe compaction that might not be true. There are university studies on which this position is based. Intuitively though it makes sense that renovation would have a positive effect...just not in terms of DM/ac. There might be other goals for renovation such as stand longevity. The deeper the roots go the better the crop would fair during hot dry periods + allowing easier migration of water and fertilizer to the roots. It might also allow a field to dry sooner as the water would have a place to drain. Sorry this isnt more coherent but Im just trying to think thru this as I go...mostly for the purpose of discussion.

 

[hudr]

Brett,
I haven't had any trouble w/ the tines ( I am renting the equipment). Of course, improvements have been made. I remember one of the first Aerways they got you had to either weld the new tines on or replace the entire roller. Now the tines mount to an axle and can be changed individually. We have sandy loam soil around here for the most part, so we don't break a lot of tines on rocks and what-not. I normally pull the Aerway w/ a 4320 JD in 3rd or 4th gear. It actually pulls easier in 5th but that is because it raises up out of the ground and you lose the penetration. In really tight soil I drop to 3rd to allow max penetration (the 2 tons of concrete weights help also).
About the ripper; Yes, I guess depending on where your hardpan was a set of rippers would provide quick results, then follow up w/ the aerater.
I saw an ad (Aerway ad, keep in mind) that showed wheat grown in a "ripped" field and then in an "Aerwayed" field. Ripped field root balls grew in line w/ the ripper furrows and plants were a little anemic. Aerwayed field root balls were rounder, fuller and the plants looked better (once again, this was as Aerway ad, so take w/ NaCl).
And yes, the metallurgy on the tines makes a HUGE difference in durability and tine life.
So like everything else, tool to use depends on a variety of factors; soil type, overall comapction, etc, etc.

 

[texasjohn]

7520.... dig up several areas of your pasture. If you find that the roots are NOT getting into the ground deeply so they can get both moisture and nutrients, then hunt down the reason. If they go down then hit a hardpan and stop... then subsoiling to fix the compaction will help. Some soil does NOT compact and/or need subsoiling.... some does.... you can learn a LOT by digging up the grass and studying what the roots are doing... also by knowing what grasses you have. Some are deep rooted types, others are shallow types. Dig, observe, learn. If you use a subsoiler, beware, it takes huge amounts of horsepower for a single shank....