Steiner? Ventrack? What is the relationship?

[prs]

They are similar. So similar that Steiner is discussed only on this Ventrack forum. Apparently similar enough that some proprietary attachments seem to interchange. Right?

So, is this a Ford/Mercury or Plymouth/Dodge kind of thing?

Or are they truly different with maybe a little interesting espionage story to boot? Is one the original and the other a kopy kat?

I have been lazily ogling Ventac for the past several Spring seasons and have noted a TV ad campaign for them locally. I notice that there is a dealership for each, pretty close together about an hour and a half from me.

I notice they are very mute about pricing on the web. Is it a situation where, "If Ya gotta ask, Ya can't afford it?"

prs

 

[murphy1244]

Steiner Brothers sold Steiner to Jacobson in Wisconsin and are now making Ventracs in Orwell Ohio.

 

[DFB]

We had two different rentals to use at the orchard last summer, with front mounted rough cut mowers on each..one diesel one gas. The diesel had the double wheels all the way around. In our situation I thought it performed much better than the gas model in many areas, considering the lay of the property very steep slopes and thick wet heavy field grasses.

Less than impressive we knocked them both out of commission (actually one had been a replacement for the other under rental) during my boss's trials for the perfect machine :laughing:

He says too bad they didn't work out :shocked:

I told him the machines themselves were fine, the issues surrounded lack of maintenance on the rentals!

Nonetheless I really liked using either one in the orchard for the most part. My preference was for the diesel and for using it over any of the three 40-90 HP tractors we have with either flail or brushog for keeping the orchard groomed.

There is a local equipment dealer here that always has some Steiners for sale along with other equipment like used compact tractors. I recommended to my boss he should maybe consider one. He didn't like the prices he was quoted on a new diesel Ventrac.

 

[prs]

Steiner Brothers sold Steiner to Jacobson in Wisconsin and are now making Ventracs in Orwell Ohio.

So, let me see if I get it, Jackobson is now producing the Steiner in Wisconson. The Steiner Bros are producing the Ventracs in Ohio. So, no wonder they are similar. Thanks.

DFB, that right there speaks volumes. Works well, maybe reliability is not so great or maybe rental blues. Do you recall what exactly failed. I have about 12 acres that I keep mowed, some a little rough, much of it steep and even exceeding 30 degree; but my compact utility tractor manages. Diesel with duelies would be my plan. I reckon I have a couple of visits to make to see them, and price them.

prs

 

[DFB]

Ya sure on the diesel model the oil return line blew a hole just before the tank fitting and on the gas engine we lost a spindle bearing on a cutting deck pulley.

You could tell the deck spindle bearing was on it's way out because the belt kept jumping the pulley under a load in the high grass out in the field.

I will say to you though, not long before it went out for good I did catch a pretty good size chunk of an chainsaw cut apple limb that someone had left behind after winter pruning and it wedged between the deck and one of the blades so tight the blade was buried several inches into the log that took a splitting maul to pound it free :laughing:

I'm sure that didn't help any

The Woods brush bull probably would have just pulverized it

 

[Raw Dodge]

The Steiner name was consistent with the original Steiner family,as far as I know into the middle 90s. I have an 89 and. 97 steiner 420,the older one is my favorite for pulling and climbing,it's geared lower than the newer one,which is better on flats and open areas...Textron bought Steiner and spun off a green version with a Ransomes name and stickers,but it was the same machine.As far as I know,this is what was told to me by a ventrac dealer,the Steiner family after selling there family nameplate and reputation,started up Venture products and waited out the non compete,making enough things different to avoid patent infringements...the hitches are the same although pulley placement and gearing is different enough to require a belt swap,and sometimes a pulley swap to get maximum performance depending on the attachment. I have both Steiners and a ventrac,they handle and operate similar,but they are slightly different,I personally think the Steiner frame is stronger,but the axles and front hitch mount on the Ventracs are stronger...controls are different,but performance wise they are similar,except for the fact that ventrac offers more power in most of its models,but the steiners do well with only 25 hp air cooled Kohler commands...there fuel efficient and will go anywhere a ventrac can,I think steiners hold a hill better,but that's just my opinion ,I'm sure that different models would affect the results,but when I have duals on a Steiner 420, it feels totally invincible ,a ventrac does too,but the Steiner feels more stable to me...Refinement and fit and finish ,and attachment quality,IMO ventrac wins...,overall I prefer ventrac....but love the steiners all the same,I've got 26 yrs on steiners,they've earned there place with our operation.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I am surprised that the matter of using the same hitch wasn't a huge infringement in itself.

Raw Dodge, you think the Steiner is stronger, but what else other then axles and hitch? That's pretty much the whole machine. I think I may have damaged my 430 hitch system after using a home made rake. That and loosing part of my finger! I have a little too much trouble getting attachiments on, not so much off.

 

[prs]

I have tomorrow afternoon off and its gonna rain cats'n dogs anyway, so I may go to Barboursville,WV to "see the elephants", so to speak. There is a Steiner and Ventrack dealer just a couple of miles apart there.

Some things I have yet to learn about the articulated steering full time 4WD system. Are the front and rear axles provided with differentials? If so, are they provided with lockers? If not provided with differentials, is tire wear of great concern and is drive train stress of concern on paved surface? My compact utility tractor is 33 years-old with about 6,600 hours and is just not getting close to needing new tires, although the super wide Pillow-Dia seem to be obsolete now. I also have not clue about pricing, so I have no basis from which to bargain or deal with the dealers. Lets use a ballpark figure for a 4500 Ventrac with dual ATV tires, Kubota gas engine, rough cut mower and the wide 3 section flex mower as the initial basis. What should I expect as an asking price and what should I offer? Seems like some kind of secret so far. I reckon I can call, but you guys have been there and done it.

prs

 

[Industrial Toys]

Front and back both have deffs. No locking on the Steiner. From the few years and varying conditions I have used mine, I have never even thought about it. I have never cursed and wished the deffs would have locks. I have been badly stuck a few times and now that I think about it, I wonder if it would have made any difference. Raw Dodge would know better.




DONE!

 

[prs]

Thanks. A 4WD with open differentials and no lock would be a total deal breaker for me; that is 2 wheel dive in my book. I use the lock on my compact tractor often, it only locks the rear, but is a great help; I reckon that is 3 wheel drive.

I sent an email to the Ventrack dealer in Barboursville asking for ballpark quote. I no response soon I will call.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I've operated enough regular tractors to suggest that a def lock is a necessity.

But on the Steiner, I just have never even thought about it. And on my articulated Kubota Wheel Loader, I have been stuck enough times as well, but it doesn't have def locks and I never cursed that it didn't.

I am just guessing that an articulated, 4 equal size tire machine is just a "different animal" and the tractive forces compared to a "conventional" tractor are quite impressive.

In general, I have never used a def lock as much as on a 2wd tractor. When I have used it on a couple of JD 4x4 tractors and my Kawi Mule, it never seems to make a BIG difference. I was driving the Mule accross a VERY rough field last fall, getting hung up and that was the first time in maybe ten years that I actually felt that the deff lock made the difference between going and staying put!

 

[prs]

Must a horse of a different color. I was thinking to myself, well I could always load the spinning rear tire with the brakes, to force the lazy wheel to pull. Used to that years ago when had an old Gravely. BUT, evidently these machines have no conventional brakes at all. Geeze, that would be something to get used to. I dunno, I'm getting a little skeptical now. I need to see these up close and maybe they have a driving area with steep bank there. I am a bit far away for them to come to me with a machine.

prs

 

[Industrial Toys]

When I bought my wheel loader, it had turf tires. I spent countless sleepless nights wondering what I was going to do in the winter? I priced new R4s but the size was Odd and the prices beyond my means. In the end, I found I have amazing traction with the turfs on anything short of glare ice! A lot of worrying for nothing.

I am sure that Raw Dodge will alleviate any fears of yours about the lack of a def lock on these two machines. I have read any possible forum on these critters and to be honest, you are the first person ever to bring this concern up.

 

[Raw Dodge]

There are no diff locks on the ventrac and steiner .the 2 wd Steiner 220/230/235 have a diff lock as they need it. I would like to have one ,not sure how much it would help,what I've found is that the only thing that stops these machines is the lack of ground clearance.Also don't forget that with an articulated setup,it would be impossible to steer with locking diffs ,and the weight is fair.y evenly distributed even over uneven terrain,even running 30 degree side hills without duals on a steiner will not spin your uphill tires,you will still be able to continue forward.We have a Ford 1910 33 hp compact 4x4 tractor at work,even with its locking diff,there are many places the steiners easily go that would sink the ford to its axles,same with climbing hills the steiners are glued to the ground,that's how they feel,and this is without diff locks.
I do feel the Steiner frame is stronger,especially in the center pivot area,it's much thicker steel and the pivot is fully boxed and welded,the Ventracs is better in that you ca replace the upper pivot bearing easily,but the entire setup isn't nearly as strong,you can feel a ventrac flex when you drop it in a steep ditch with a 72" deck,where a steiner will not.a steiners pivot is a large ball with a welded socket when it wears out replacement is difficult,our old machine has play we just live with it,it's only annoying when the machine is close to naturally balanced and you feel it rock over every little bump.when it's loaded with a heavy attachment and counterweights i
You never notice it to much pressure is on it,

 

[prs]

Great information! Thanks.

prs

 

[Raw Dodge]

Even with what I feel is a stronger frame, let me be clear I'd walk past a steiner to get a ventrac. ..i believe they are that much better overall.I can't speak for the 4500 series ventrac or the 440 steiners, as I don't have those maxhines, I am comparing the 4000/41/4200 series Ventrac vs the Steiner 420/430....The additional power the ventrac lineup has available, the electric pto clutch is a much better setup for belt life, and gives less problems overall when you factor in the constant need to adjust the belts and the extra wear from bending the top belt backwards, the extra filter on the ventracs hydraulic system, and the return setup is better, as is the factory fill of amsoil synthetic is way better..The ventrac uses a splined low pressure pump whereas the Steiners use a pin, the splines allow you to turn up the hydraulic pressure without fear of sheering a pin, a $3.00 sheered pin takes hours for a trained mechanic to replace....it's important to note Steiner made alot of changes with the 440, and they fixed alot of of the shortcomings. .I'd like a week with one to see how they are.id like a kubota gas or diesel..like to try the big block air cooled Kohler 40hp as well.

 

[prs]

I plan on visiting a Ventrac dealer Saturday AM. He has 4500 with the Kubota gas engine and some others. With duals, 3pt hitch, and 72" mower he says retail is $25,989.00. With the 84" contour mower it comes in at $29,700.00.

Not sure how much room they to deal, my Kubota dealers can usually give 10% pretty easy and in slow times can be pushed to about almost 20%. And even at that the prices are fairly comparable.

I have always done all of my own mechanical work, never had any dealer services after the sale. But, I am not spring chicken now.

prs

 

[murphy1244]

Ventrac won't sell less than the State pays. At least that's the way it works here.

 

[MossRoad]

They are similar. So similar that Steiner is discussed only on this Ventrack forum. Apparently similar enough that some proprietary attachments seem to interchange. Right?

So, is this a Ford/Mercury or Plymouth/Dodge kind of thing?

Or are they truly different with maybe a little interesting espionage story to boot? Is one the original and the other a kopy kat?

I have been lazily ogling Ventac for the past several Spring seasons and have noted a TV ad campaign for them locally. I notice that there is a dealership for each, pretty close together about an hour and a half from me.

I notice they are very mute about pricing on the web. Is it a situation where, "If Ya gotta ask, Ya can't afford it?"

prs

Drive south about 90 miles and check out Power Trac in Tazewell, VA....
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Taz...f2af2bd9e66c1c!2m2!1d-81.9934581!2d37.8487147

Versatile Tractors,Compact Tractors,Trailer Packages,Landscaping,Utility Vehicle Rentals,Mowers-Power Trac

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a link to an interesting video about the Ventrac history...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUUuIuARqm0