steering wheel wont turn in cold

[meaford]

My 204 jinma started up in 4 turns today at -15 and the loader works fine.Tractor has rad heater but the steering wheel will not turn for about 10 minutes.Is there some kind of way to heat the hydralic oil.What will I do when its -30 below up here in Canada in January?I live near Sudbury Ontario.

 

[greg_g]

If you haven't already, switch to AW32 hydraulic fluid, it's much thinner than whatever it's shipped with. Also, you might have water somewhere in the steering. Rain and condensation will run down the steering shaft, and might be getting past a seal/gasket/cover.

I have a standing recommendation to flush all the OE fluids on Day One, and as required again at the end of a 50 hour break-in period. A thorough kerosene flush of the hydraulic system before putting in the AW32 might resolve your steering issue.

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

Greg gave you good advice about flushing oil and checking for water. I've seen old fors steering boxes with ICE in them from collected water...

Soundguy

 

[RonMar]

As greg mentioned, especially in cold weather, you need some thinner fluid. Another problem with hydraulic oil is that it typically holds moisture. When you shut down your warm tractor on a wet day, as the hydraulic oil cools and the air inside the resovoir contracts, it draws in moist air through the airvent on the hydraulic fill cap. As things cool, the moisture condenses inside the resovoir and eventually mixes with the oil. The older the oil, the more moisture it typically contains. As things get cold, this moisture will freeze and you will wind up with ice crystals in the fluid. They make filters specifically for removing water but these machines are only fitted with a strainer. One way to reduce this moisture buildup is to use a dessicant breather on the vent. These are starting to become commonplace on hydraulic systems.

Some owners of these tractors have fitted filters to these air vents to keep debris out. I went one step further and atached a inline filter with dessicant normally used on a airline feeding a paint gun. Not very expensive and usually found at auto stores that sell auto body/paint supplies. As well as keeping out debris, the dessicant absorbes the moisture from the air before it goes into the resovoir. It has a clear body to observe the indicating dessicant. When it has turned color (blue is new, pink is poo), I know it is saturated and I can replace it.

If you are still runing the original oil and it is anything like mine, which looked like straight 30 weight oil, it will be a problem at lower temps. Straight 30wt starts to turn to jello down in those minus temps. If you havn't done so, flush your system as Greg recomends and fill with new AW32 hydraulic oil. If you are running thinner fluid and it is still performing like this, it may be water saturated. What does it look like? From what I have read, it takes about 200-300 Parts per Million of water to start to look milky/cloudy. With the small size of these systems it is probably simpler and more cost effective to replace the hydraulic oil than try to filter out the water in the oil.

If your temps are that extreme, you might need to add some form of heat to the hydraulic resovoir. You could try a oil pan heat pad bonded to the side of the hydraulic resovoir, or a magnetic heater to get the resovoir temps up prior to startup. Trying to suck cold paste hydraulic fluid is certainly not healthy for your hydraulic pump.

Good Luck and stay warm

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Ronmar,
excellent explanation on how moisture gets in hydraulic system and your dessicant/filter system. I'd like to know where you got it. I would certainly consider it.
I also had trouble steering and getting the 3 PT and FEL to operate in my Upstate NY winter temps until warmed up. I had to run engine for 15 to 20 minutes to get the systems work as designed. I changed to AW-32 and all was solved.
I do like the idea of at least having a filter on the breather. Here on Johns tractor site a modification by Norm S. It is a simple but effective way to filter dust/dirt but does not filter moisture.
I think it is well worth the investment even though it does not address the moisture concern.

http://www.johnstractor.homestead.com/NormsTankBreather.html

 

[RonMar]

The filter I used is a Motor Guard DD1008. I picked mine up while standing in line at Harbor Freight tools but I have also seen them in NAPA Auto Parts stores. They list a 2 pack of them for $23 on the link below. As I recall I only paid $4 or $5 for a single filter at Harbor Freight but they don't show them on their website.
Shortened Long Link

The filter has 1/4" female NPT on one end and a male on the other end so I added a nylon hose barb to one end and mounted it as pictured to the existing threaded holes in the seat back using cable clamps. I connected it to the vent with some soft poly hose I had laying around. The only mod to the tractor was cutting off the hooked air pipe so it was straight but this is not required. Large Vacume hose would also work good.

I just noticed in running out to take a picture of it to post that I have contaminated mine with Hydraulic fluid so I need to replace it. I added some fluid about 2 weeks ago and it was fine then, with only a little bit of pink showing after 70 hours of runtime. I was working up on the side of a bank so I may have put too much fluid in for those conditions and forced some up the hose. I wish the vent was in the middle of the hydraulic resovoir and not on the cap. I may drill and tap a fitting onto the top of my resovoir for a fixed vent so this won't happen again. I could screw the filter directly to this fitting and it would be protected under the seat. I don't like having to pull off the hose when I check the fluid anyway.

MikePA: Please review your message before posting it. It's simple not to create a long link that widens the entire thread. Just insert a descriptive word or two between the {url=http://whatever}<font color="red">Enter words here</font>{/url} instead of the entire URL. Replace parentheses {} with square brackets in previous example. Alternatively, if you use the Instant Markup language URL link, the first prompt is for the URL. The second prompt is for a description. Do not simply paste in the URL again. Type a short description of the link.

 

[gunslinger101]

What works cheaply is cut the bend in the stock vent pipe so its straight, get a 3 inch long 1 inch dia. pipe nipple and 2 end caps from a hardware store, drill a 1/8 inch hole in one cap and put a barbed fitting in the other cap to hook to the hose.
Put a Tampon (cheap if your married) in the pipe, screw it all together. Once in a while open it up and change the tampon. passes air for venting but sucks up moisture. Cost about 3 bucks

 

[RonMar]

MikePa, Thanks, that was kinda a long link. I remember seeing those instructiuons a while back but hadn't bothered to figure it out.

Gunslinger101, that is pretty funny. Unfortunatly a tampon may absorb moisture but it dosn't trap it. What do you get when you squeeze a saturated tampon? A wet hand... What do you get when you squeeze saturated silica jel? Nothing, the water is trapped within it's molecular structure. the only way to get it out is to heat it above the boiling point.

Silica jel can also be recycled/reconditioned with a microwave. The filter assembly I am using is all hard plastic/nylon. Untill I contaminated my current filter with AW32, I was going to see how it survived this process when it became saturated with water. Maybe next time...

 

[meaford]

Ken here in Meaford Canada, Thanks for all your help boys.I purchased a small magnetic heater to warm up the oil resevoir and it works great at -15.c. One more thing What speed should I run PTO at when snowblowing, 1000 or 600?

 

[RonMar]

It depends on the blower. The manufacturer should have a rated/maximum speed for the input shaft. Most impliments are 540RPM though. If you have a horsepower surplus, you could run at the 1000RPM setting and reduce engine RPM to approximatly half the RPM that gives you the PTO rated RPM(green arc on tach) to still have 540 on the PTO shaft.