Steep Hill Log Skidding

Rip · Feb 7, 2004

I'm at 8000 ft in Colorado on a very steep hill that needs logs removed on a regular basis for fire mitigation (that 137,000 acre Hayman Fire in '02 was just 8 miles from us, among others). I currently have an ARGO Conquest 20 HP 8X8 AATV that will go almost anywhere on our hills, but runs out of power and traction when you have to brake one side to skid steer it.

A contractor with a JD 4600 bearly was able to get into some of the places I need to go, and the pucker factor was pretty high even then. I have a NH TC-30 with wide-set R-1 tires plus 420 lbs of wheel weights that is still way too tippy for the terrain in question. I am planning on filling the tires plus perhaps adding 3" or 4" axle extentions, but I know it still will not be able to safely go much of where I need to.

I am seriously considering a Hydro Traxx 6X6 AATV that has full hydrostatic drive with either a 32 or 45 HP Kubota Turbo Diesel (hydrotraxxonline.com). It has more ground clearence and is a foot wider than the ARGO plus all wheels are under power at all times. It looks like it would be pretty darn impossible to roll over but I would get a roll cage for it to keep the wife happy. I plan to make something like the QuadSkidder to keep the logs from digging in and catching on the rocks.

Any comments and/or experience with such a set up?

Rip

JJT · Feb 7, 2004

If it's as steep as you say, why not let the pro's handle it on a share basis? They have the equipment to do the job right and stay safe. I've see spots that were so steep that the skidder couldn't pull a hitch of logs up, they free spool the winch, drive the skidder to the top of the hill and then winch the logs up.

I know loggers that do a 1/3 - 1/2 share for them and 2/3 - 1/2 for the property owners, (depending on the amount of work involved).

JerryG · Feb 7, 2004

Check out the Massey Ferguson 3300 series tractors. They are about the same physical size as a 35-40 horse compact tractor. That is the only thing that they share with the compacts though. They weigh about 5000 pounds. You would not run out of power either with 54-93 HP engine horse and 47-82 PTO horse. With wide tires set at the widest setting it would be amazing where you could go.

Rip · Feb 7, 2004

I'll look into the MF 3300 series... I had figured that although larger tractors usually have a wider stance, they also sit taller so that there was not much side-hill advantage.

As for contracting the work out, the few folks I has talked to before were not really interested and acknowledged that things would end up fairly well torn up if they used real heavy equipment. The guy with the JD was pretty easy on the land, just could not get into a lot of the area.

Thanks for the input though.... I'm looking at all options.

Rip

JerryG · Feb 7, 2004

The MF 3300's are as low to the ground or lower than a compact. I was amazed when I first looked at them. Such a small package with everything the larger tractors have.

Henro · Feb 8, 2004

<font color="blue"> Here's a link to the Massy 3300 series </font>

Looks like on style has about the same ground clearance as my B2910 Kubota, weighs about 2.5 times as much, and has rear wheels that spread 10" wider than mine [64" vs 54].

Rip · Feb 8, 2004

Thanks for the link... I had found a somewhat different one with more pics but less data after Jerry mentioned this series. Seems like more machine than I am really looking for at this time.

By the way, I'm not running out of power with my NH TC-30, just side-hill stability. I am still thinking about wheel/axle extensions to increase my rear track width by 6 to 8 inches on general principal, but I still doubt I could go every where I want.

The ARGO Conquest has good stability and will go just about anywhere I need, but it lacks power at my altitude and sometimes gives me ground clearance issues with the many rocks on this site. ARGO has just come out with a new model, the Avenger, with 5 more ponies and a "new" steering transmision, but it may not be enough additional power for me and I am always leary of brand new unproven mechanical (and electronic/software for that matter) devices. Too many "beta" versions being foisted on the unsuspecting public.

Soooo.... that's why I am considering the Hydro Traxx which offers much more power along with a basic hydrostatic drive train plus more ground clearance and even wider track width to replace the ARGO. I also use the six passenger ARGO (or similar configuration Hydro Traxx) to drive friends, family and grandkids around our ranch on tires or snow tracks.

I am still open to other options however, and was curious if anyone else on this forum had faced a similar situation.

Thanks for the input....

Rip

JerryG · Feb 8, 2004

As far as power goes, If I lived at that elevation I would want an engine with a turbocharger. You can compensate for the altitude with the turbo. I love mine and I'm not at 8000 ft. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Henro · Feb 8, 2004

Rip,

Have you considered dual rear wheels as an option?

One member here...Slamfire I think...I remember the pic under the name but I am now loosing confidence in my memory...did so.

I believe he reported a tremendous increase in stability on hills after he put duals on the back of his tractor.

Rip · Feb 9, 2004

In terms of stability, I think I would gain as much with axle extensions as with duals since I don't need additional floatation. I may also do partial fluid fill in addition to the 420 lbs of cast wheel weights I already have. The front axle would still be narrow in any case. This may not be too bad if I remove the FEL and hang suitcase weights on the front bumper.

I agree about the turbo. I loose about 28% up here with any naturally aspirated engine. Both engines I would consider in the Hydro Traxx are Kubota Turbo Diesels.

Rip

ZJ_HR · Feb 9, 2004

If you look for small and powerfull tractor, try to find slightly used Agco Allis 5660, 4wd. Pretty small, nimble and powerfull tractor for that what you need. Width of rear side is 72", wheelbase 82". I have SAME Argon, what is equal tractor to mentioned AA. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
BTW, mentioned MF3300 have similar (SAME) gearbox, MFWD and CAB like AA, only different engine. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hope this helps,
ZJ

JerryG · Feb 9, 2004

<font color="blue"> BTW, mentioned MF3300 have similar (SAME) gearbox, MFWD and CAB like AA, only different engine </font>
That's all right. The engine in the 3300's is a Perkins.

Rip · Feb 9, 2004

Thanks for the tips.... I'll look around for these models as well.

Rip

dylan · Feb 10, 2004

Maybe consider a small bulldozer or an oliver cleat track for pulling power and hill stability.

EastTexFrank · Feb 10, 2004

I had to do someting similar last summer but I don't think my slopes were as severe as yours and I did have a piece of "flatter" land that I was comfortable running the tractor on. I cut it up into managable pieces and used a long rope and a couple of snatch blocks/pulleys to pull it out of there a piece at a time. Whenever the tractor started to get on to a slope I was uncomfortable with, I stopped, untied the rope, backed down the slope and took another bite. It was slow and laborious and took 2 people to do it safely but it was kinda fun working out in the woods with my wife.

pekabu · Feb 11, 2004

Not sure how big or how much you want to skid, but someone posted a link on this website and when I looked at the Manufacturers other products they had a small tracked skidder, that had an option of Forwarder trailer with Log loader.

I can't seem to find the link though.

Rip · Feb 11, 2004

I have considered a tracked unit (even the Nortrac 30 HP diesel crawler with 6 way blade and 3 pt hitch), but am afraid that steel tracks would tear up the ground cover and cause erosion.

I found a rubber tracked hydrostatic Berfor Forcat 2000 mini-skidder by RAD Technologies in Canada, but it only has a 24 HP gas engine (remember I lose 28% power with any NA engine) and the mfg said it would not be suited to my situation.

I also don't want an older machine that I have to rebuild or futz with a lot. I have a winch with 80 ft cable on my TC-30, but would need 5 times that to get to many areas and even then a straight pull would often be impossible.

Thanks for all the input and tips.... at this point I still think the Hydro Traxx 6X6 with 28" low pressure tires, hydrostatic drive and a 32 HP TD Kubota will go any where, be very stable on the side hills, and be gentle on the land while still be able to pull logs with a quadskidder-type of hitch-up.

I will be going out of town and be out of contact for the next three weeks, so I won't be able to respond to subsequent posts for a while.

Thanks all....

Rip-on-the-mountain

pekabu · Feb 11, 2004

Now that you mention it was the RAD unit.

RobertN · Feb 11, 2004

Look at the track-loaders. An ASV-RC30 would be similar hp to your CUT. The next step would be something like the ASV-RC50 or Cat-247 with 50hp.
www.asvi.com