Chinese 1-ton mini questions

[sansbury]

I've owned a Deere 1025R TLB for the past few years and the idea of a mini-ex has been gnawing at me for the past couple months. Close to pulling the trigger, but would love to hear some more feedback from those who've been there done that before I light 10-15 grand on fire. Mostly interested in hearing from people who own or have laid their hands on one of these machines for more than 5 minutes versus people just telling me "don't buy Chinese junk" or whatever*.

I started out writing a 1000-word essay about my site/projects/etc. but thinking about it, I really have a few specific questions/concerns:

1. Am I a dupe for considering Kymron and Groundhog versus buying a machine right off the boat? I don't mind paying a few grand more for a slightly upgraded machine (better hydraulics, cooling, controls), with maybe a bit more QC, and somebody in the US to call when I need a part. I don't want to pay a few grand more just for somebody to paint their name on the boom, though.

2. Am I stupid to think a gas machine (such as YH14 | Kymron) is enough? My Deere 260B hoe has generally been strong enough for what I want to do, it's just slow if you're doing more than digging one smallish hole in one place. I am assuming these gas machines have about the same digging ability. As a homeowner with a small (~3 acre) site, I would expect to put *at most* 50hrs/year on a machine (my tractor is at 105 after 3.5 years), and that maintenance on the little Briggs would be simpler for a DIY guy than the small diesels.

3. Stability: These small machines look a bit tippy to me, and my site is not crazy steep but very much not pancake flat either. I don't need or expect to carry 800-pound logs across a 30% grade, but I don't want to feel like I'm going to die going down a 10-20° incline either. I can drive my tractor just about everywhere on my site, but there are parts where I have to be careful, especially if I'm carrying something heavy. I looked at an Agrotek FF12 locally the other day, and it seemed really top-heavy to me though part of that may have been the hydraulics being super twitchy.

The Kymron/Groundhog machines I'm looking at have retractable tracks so I'd get a little better lateral stability that way, but I'm also concerned about being able to safely transit up and down slopes. I'm also open to running on steel tracks if that made a critical difference, since almost all of my work would be off turf or pavement out in the field/woods. On the smallest machines they add about 600 pounds right at the bottom which seems like it would add a lot of stability.

4. Floatation/ground pressure: A lot of my site gets very wet/inundated in the spring and sometimes mid-late fall when there's a lot of rain or snow melt and not enough sun and heat to dry it out, and my tractor can't cross these areas without digging in and getting stuck. Am I correct to think that the mini-ex would perform better since the ground pressure would be much lower, or would it just dig a bigger hole? My one good thing here is that the steeper spots generally drain well so I'm less concerned about sliding down a muddy hill.

* And yes, I *have* considered buying used and renting. Out here I almost never see used machines under ~$25-30k, and I'm not looking to buy a machine, use it for a year and sell it when I'm done. Renting is an option, but I'm not retired and if I'm lucky I get 1-3 days a week to work if the weather is good, and I don't have a big truck and trailer so it costs $300 just for delivery and pickup plus $400/day so it adds up fast.

Thanks again!

 

[MattB4]

1. No, but you would have to decide if the extra cost was justified.
2. Maybe, because I do not know the use you will put it to. Be aware that these things move slooow!
3. Not terribly stable when digging, lifting and the hydraulics can really throw you about if you do not do everything carefully. Stable enough to run ("run" who am I kidding snails move faster) along and climb reasonable slopes.
4. Flotation being only about a 1-ton on tracks there is not much ground pressure.

I have owned a Typhon Terror 1-Ton for about a 1 year now. It did a few jobs for me but my experience is that for a hole digger in soft soil, and trencher where there is not much rocks, it is adequate. If you want to do more heavy duty land work you really need a bigger heavier machine.

 

[sansbury]

Thanks, Matt, that's good input.

I'm aware of the (lack of) speed. It's 900' between the two farthest points on my lot, and in practical use more like half that from the garage area to most points. If I was looking to move material long distances or grade a larger area I have the tractor loader and box blade.

My biggest project would probably be drainage trenching. I haven't worked out all the elevations and distances but I think the first phase would be around 200-300' depending on how aggressive I want to be. I could see where a bigger machine could do that easily in a day or two. If it takes me 5 or 6 that's fine.

If I wanted to be efficient I could probably just pay somebody to do it a lot faster. But where's the fun in that I also think that it's likely going to work better doing it one section at a time and seeing how it works versus just dropping 800' of drain in every direction.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I'll address it more from a size issue, not the China vs name brand side. The 1.4 ton machines are extremely small. They are more a replacement for a helper with a shovel than a piece of heavy equipment. Larger roots, heavy clays, rocks, ect, as well as digging anywhere you are trying to out dig ground water, you're going to have trouble. Once you move into the Jd-27; Cat-302.5 class machines (size I mean), you gain a lot of capability. What I'm trying to say; if you think there is a chance you need something in the YH-20D class, although it's a significant jump in price ($15.9k, but 2 ton, and yanmar diesel), it's also a significant jump in ability.

 

[paulsharvey]

I should say, If what you need is a 1t/1.4t machine, that's fine, I'm not beating it up, just if your needing a 2 or 2.5t machine, the time to consider that is now.

 

[sansbury]

Thanks Paul. In terms of capability, my comparison is to the 260B hoe on my 1025R, as that's the only piece of "real equipment" I've ever had. Based on specs, my impression was that it would be pretty equivalent to the 1t machines in terms of strength.

I haven't found it to be badly underpowered for my work but then I haven't ever run something a class up so what do I know? The gain in going to the mini-ex would be the mobility/ease of repositioning while digging plus having one machine to dig and another to move material or what have you.

Your point is taken though that it's usually better to be a little oversized than a little undersized. Much to think about.

 

[paulsharvey]

I would expect it to be a mixed bag compared to the 1025. The actual operation of the hoe, digging, moving, digging more, the ability to swing 360 degrees, all will be a great advantage. The 1t/1.4t machines, however, are taller, lighter, and have less weight countering the hoe. The tracks are also pretty narrow, as well as the travel speed will be a slow walk.

With that said, having two machines, one to dig and one to back fill, will be an advantage.

 

[paulsharvey]

Point #4; I didn't see that at first. Look closely at the ground clearance and the track drive motors, as well as the center pivot bearing. Some of the micro hoes only have like 3" of ground clearance. Mix that with narrow tracks, and it could bottom out in soft ground pretty easily. Sure, you should be able to work yourself out, between hoe and push blade, but it's gonna get old the 5th time, and you'll make a mess.

 

[sansbury]

Well as it turns out I had some time free today and took a trip to check these guys out. They seem to have started out importing Chinese machines to Australia and then a couple outlets in Canada, and opened up here in the northeast US back in April. The GM has been in the machinery business for 20 years and said they are working on building up a full US presence with local support and parts.

I looked at both the 1-ton diesel mini and the 2-ton.

UHI Machinery UME12P Mini Excavator 2,660lbs. Kubota Engine

* Kubota 13.8HP Engine * Swing boom; Expandable track * Manual quick hitch for easy changing attachments Package price $13,950including 8” Trenching bucket, 15’’ Digging bucket, 31” Grading bucket, Rake, 8" Auger, Manual quick hitch, Hydraulic thumb plus 3 year peace-of-mind warranty! *...

uhimachinery.com

UHI Machinery UME18 Mini Excavator 4,330lbs. Kubota Engine

* Kubota D902 15.8HP Engine * Swing boom; high/low travel speed; Expandable track * Hydraulic quick hitch for easy changing attachments Package price $23,600 including 8” Trenching bucket, 16” Digging bucket, 39” Grading bucket, Ripper, Hydraulic quick hitch, Hydraulic thumb and 3 year...

uhimachinery.com

The 1-ton retails for $14K with a pretty good set of attachments and the 2-ton goes for 24k with a similar attachment package. Both have side swing booms, retractable tracks, and pilot controls.

The 1-ton seems like a very good deal as it's priced similar to the gas minis but has a Kubota diesel. I didn't go over the machine with a fine tooth comb but overall layout and fit and finish seemed good and comparable to my Deere 1025R. Operation was definitely a lot smoother than the FF12-type machine I looked at earlier in the week. It is also a ~2500lb machine so a little heavier than the small gas powered ones.

The 2-ton felt like a significantly bigger machine but didn't feel as much smoother as I expected it to, particularly the track controls. I don't know if the valves needed some adjusting but the control levers had a lot of throw to them, but they went from fully closed to fully open in a very small amount of the movement so the machine felt a bit jerky, in some ways more so than the smaller machine. One of the mechanics said that he felt the 2-ton was a much more stable and smooth machine overall and would be his choice if he was buying one for general use.

I think where I'm at is I'm going to spend some time digging with my little backhoe and see what I think and whether I really want/need a bigger machine. This whole shebang started with me seeing the 1-ton machines for like 10k, and now I'm considering spending over 2x that and that's starting to feel like too much money to buy on an impulse.

 

[mike0000]

I’m pretty happy with my Kymron YH 14, it has side swing and expandable tracks. I have 20 hrs on it so far. I have added an electric fan and an exhaust extension as the engine compartment gets very hot. Gas Briggs and Stratton engine. It surprises me on what it will do, I’ve worked it pretty hard with no real problems. I will say the side swing will “move around” a bit with excavator use. Not a big issue just a small annoyance that I have to occasionally return it to center, the hyd. Thumb sinks down on its own a little bit too, again not a big issue. It is tippy, especially going downhill carrying a load. I have added about 220lbs of counterweight to the rear, which has helped, but I still must respect the danger of the possibility of a rollover. I’m currently removing some huge stumps in prep for a future shop build. I’m also using my Kubota L3901 for the heavy lifting. I’m getting work done with the mini ex I never could have done without it. I’ve wanted an Excavator for a long time, sure I’d like a larger one but this one is a pretty good fit for a smaller property, as they say it sure beats a shovel.