Starter questions

[Dadsgreenpsd]

Hi all,

Decided to install a parallel solenoid today, and after installing it, the starter still just clicks... Checked voltage to the solenoid (on starter), and it is only 6 volts. This can't be correct, can it?? Is my next stop on the troubleshooting train the key switch?

 

[GuglioLS]

Hey Jon this is on your Jinma 254 right? 6 volts at the solenoid is not correct, how's the battery charge? Have you measured battery voltage when trying to start? Remove the ground wire lug that comes from the battery to the frame, grind down the frame to bare metal, clean the lug and try again. Also the clutch switch may be an issue - high resistance and so could the starter switch, maybe even a corroded fuse / fuse holder contact.

Larry

 

[greg_g]

Please describe what you're using for a "parallel solenoid", and how you wired it in. Because the way I did mine, I'd be more inclined to describe as a relay in series. It's an inexpensive Ford-type starter relay that you can get in most auto-parts stores for ~$15.

//greg//

 

[Dadsgreenpsd]

Yes, 254 (sorry, I know better than that...) '01 vintage. 12v ford-type solenoid, so I don't have to jump off and use the screwdriver... Anyway, the new starter relay didn't pull in after installation, so grabbed the meter, tested voltage, and found 6.3v at switch terminal of solenoid when trying to start. 12v at hot terminal of starter, and battery charges fine, so I guess I will work my way back thru the clutch switch and key. Found the replacement switch via search, and saved that info for later.

I will bypass (temporarily) the clutch switch and test.

The fuse holder is garbage, and I bypassed the fuse on the start circuit (again temporarily, until I get a new fuse block).

I should have checked the voltage at the starter solenoid a long time ago, but it pulls the starter gear in fine. It just doesn't always make the contact to turn the starter over. Just a continuing reminder to check the easy stuff first.:ashamed:

 

[greg_g]

12v ford-type solenoid,

Well, I still don't know how you wired it in - especially since you're describing it as parallel. So at this point I have little choice but to conclude that you've simply wired the relay in wrong. Because the little wire from the tractor keyswitch only provides switching voltage to the add-on relay. It gets connected to the little post marked S. then - if you were supplying the relay input post with a nominal 12.2v from the battery, that's exactly what you should see on the relay output post - which in turn you should also see at the OE solenoid.

So again, I have to ask how you wired in this "parallel solenoid". It should be
(a) move keyswitch wire from OE solenoid to little S post on relay
(b) fabricate 10ga primary wire& lugs to connect the starter end of the battery cable and one large post on the relay
(c) fabricate 10ga primary wire & lugs to connect the opposite relay post with the OE solenoid (where you took off the OE keyswitch wire).
I use radiator hose straps (the worm gear type) to fasten the Ford relay to the starter motor housing. That minimizes the amount of wire needed for the fabricated connections.

//greg//

 

[Dadsgreenpsd]

OK, a little testing verified my (new) suspicions. I have taken the new ford type starter relay out of the circuit. If i touch a jumper wire from the s terminal to the known 12v incoming terminal on the starter, it will pull in and turn over no problem. Soo, I am off to check voltage drop across clutch safety switch and key switch. This would explain why it would work sometimes, and not others.

Thanks both of you for pointing me in the right direction!:thumbsup:

 

[GuglioLS]

.......SNIP.....SNIP.... it pulls the starter gear in fine. It just doesn't always make the contact to turn the starter over. .....snip....snip...:ashamed:

DOH - just like mine, I was too cheap (or lazy?) to replace the starter solenoid. Many years ago I did exactly as you did now, added a parallel solenoid with contacts (relay ). Perhaps energizing two coils is too much for the circuit? and that's why the voltage drop? I place my bets on a corroded something somewhere or a high resistance contact. Sounds like your not electronically challenged, so I have no doubts your going to find and fix it. For sure clean up the battery ground to the frame, it's worth cleaning that up regardless if that's the problem or not. Attached are a couple of pics where I located my aux starter relay to the starter solenoid. I picked it up from Granger.

Larry

 

[greg_g]

Larry, I see the proliferation of lugs on the high amperage post (last photo) has left you a few threads short. If that relay you got from Granger as a second low amperage post (typically labeled "I"), you could relocate that small wire. Might get another turn outa the blue Nyloc that way.

//greg//