Starlink

[RedNeckGeek]

Still waiting, but my patience is running a bit thin.

The way I look at it, I had no other choice other than to wait. AT&T and Verizon won't sell me a cellular hot spot because cellular data reception is marginal here. I tried T-Mobile, and it was good when it worked, but it experienced long periods of time when I got no connection at all. Worse, trying to cancel the "free" trial required so many phone calls over a six month period I lost track of just how many. In addition to HughesNet, I've tried the aptly named Exede (I always seemed to excede my data cap before the end of the month), and another one called Wildblue/Viasat, again with data caps and high latency. Apparently HughesNet has a new satellite with more capacity, but moving to it would entail a new two year contract and I'd still be dealing with unrealistically low data caps. If I had any choice other than traditional geosynchronous satellite internet service, I'd take it. Fortunately, the wait for StarLink, at least for me, has been worth it.

 

[bdhsfz6]

StarLink portability is aimed at people who have boats or RVs and who would need Internet access away from home. This is a REALLY big deal for boats.

Starlink seems to be limited to 12 miles offshore at the present time, which I think is mainly due to the need to have satellite to satellite communication. Having said that, I noticed there were dead zones in the Chesapeake in VA, one of the sounds in NC, and in one of the Great Lakes where one would expect coverage.

In some places, cell service is good enough if one is near shore, we have had cell service six or so miles off shore, and I have heard of people getting a signal farther offshore. But even along the coast, one can be without cell service and cell Internet can be expensive. Offshore Internet is exceedingly expensive, and can cost tens of thousands of dollars for the equipment and the data plans can be hundreds of dollars a month and still be data limited. I have seen plans that were $1 a megabyte.

Starlink is working on boats at the present time but not warrantied, however, this is one of the areas that Starlink wants to support so it will happen in time. Starlink is going to wipe out some of the off grid Internet providers. Paying $130 a month for unlimited bandwidth at the Starlink speeds is dirt cheap compared to the competitors.

Land based, we were paying $120 per month of an unlimited cell plan. And our DSL at 1.5 mbps was $50-75 a month. Our new cell plan, we need backup Internet access, is $20ish a month but data limited AND not working.

The Starlink dish will have to be redesigned for it to work on a boat unless tied up at a marina. When under way, the existing dish will not react to rocking motion or pivoting when at anchor due to wind & tide.

 

[KilroyJC]

Proud member of the “Waiting and Waiting List”

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Still waiting, but my patience is running a bit thin.

I’m still waiting also. At least I have LTE available.

 

[Fallon]

The Starlink dish will have to be redesigned for it to work on a boat unless tied up at a marina. When under way, the existing dish will not react to rocking motion or pivoting when at anchor due to wind & tide.

Maybe not. Some people have previously gotten them working doing 70 down the highway. A given starlink satellite orbits every 90 minutes. I don't onow offhand what that translates to precisely, but its only going to be visible for a few minutes, probably less than 10.

As such, dishy uses a phased array antenna to be able to instantly redirect the antenna without physically re-aiming it. Either to track a given bird or hop to the next one. It should be able to handle the bobbing & rolling of a boat. It may need a better gyroscope to figure out how it's rolling, but it should be able to track fine.

 

[BigBlue1]

The Starlink dish will have to be redesigned for it to work on a boat unless tied up at a marina. When under way, the existing dish will not react to rocking motion or pivoting when at anchor due to wind & tide.

Well, yes and no. I'm sure they will redesign it for in-motion use to have a lower profile and possibly be able to hold position with gyroscopic stabilizers or something. But even absent that the current dish probably does OK. It's phased array antenna system has the ability to focus in on multiple satellites at once as they are moving. It has dozens of receptors so it can lock on pretty well. I'd suspect it would do better than you think.

But 100% agree that the current 'portability' offering is intended static use in multiple locations, not in-motion use.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

@RedNeckGeek what you are trying to do is doable. My guess is that you need to change browsers on your phone, and allow cookies to login. Other folks have reported that issue. I would disconnect everything, including the Ethernet adapter until you login normally.

I downloaded and installed Firefox on the iPhone 12 ProMax. There doesn't appear to be any option for enabling/disabling cookies. There was an option to clear cookies, so I did.

I powered down the StarLink modem and disconnected the Ethernet adapter.

Then power cycled the StarLink modem four times, and when it restarted, logged in to the STARLINK WiFi network using the iPhone app, renamed it and gave it a password, then went to the Settings menu and tried to login. That brings up a new window in Firefox, where it takes the username/password I've already set and stored in my password manager. That is NOT the WiFi username/password, FWIW. There's no way I'm typing in an 18 character string of random characters, but just to be safe, I brought up the StarLink username/password in the password manager, set the password field to "reveal", and copied the password. Then back in Firefox, ensured that the username was entered correctly, and pasted in the password. The Sign In screen blinks, The INVALID CREDENTIALS error message is displayed, the username/password fields become blank, and the only option I'm given is "LOCKED OUT?" If I play the game and request a password reset, then use the new credentials, I can login to the Starlink website using either Safari or Firefox. But I still can't login from the StarLink app: It always gives the INVALID CREDENTIALS error message. And that means I can't change any of the Settings on the StarLink modem.

I deleted the StarLink app on the iPhone, downloaded a fresh copy, and it didn't make any difference. At this point I'm out of options as to how to proceed, and I still haven't gotten a response from my email to StarLink tech support.

So for now I'm going to reinstall the Ethernet adapter and get back to where the UDMP is using the StarLink WAN connection. It may be slower than it could be, but it's vastly faster and more reliable than HughesNet ever thought of being.

On your UDM Pro, you want Starlink on WAN1, port 9, and Hughes on WAN2 port 10.

I've verified that is how the two WANs are configured.

If the Starlink router is operational (I.e. not shutdown), you need to have your Hughes and your home network off 192.168.1.0/24. That belongs to Starlink. I suspect that the switch to Hughes and back is causing that issue. You don't need a static route for 192.168.100.1. Your UDM will automatically send it out the WAN port. (If you want Starlink stats when you are on Hughes, that isn't going to work, as you can't have both WAN ports active on a UDM PRO.)

The HughesNet modem is set to use 192.168.0.1 and there is no way to change it.

The UDMP is using 192.168.10.1 as the gateway address. All of the cameras and other devices are using this address.

The StarLink modem uses 192.168.100.1 as the gateway address. When the MBP laptop is connected to the StarLink WiFi, I can enter this address in the browser address field and it brings up the StarLink admin page. However, there is no option to alter Settings, and it directs me to use the iPhone app to do so.

Before I set up the static route on the UDMP to 192.168.100.1, that address was not reachable when typed into the address bar of FireFox running on a MacBook Pro laptop that was using the 192.168.10.1 gateway WiFi.

With the hardware you have, you should have no trouble hitting 150-200Mbits/s on a modern tablet/phone/PC.

That's encouraging, but so far I'm lucky to get 1/3 to 1/2 that.

Finally, I would suggest moving your antenna (Dishy) to get fewer obstructions. We see an interruption a week for two minutes tops.

The only obstruction is the pole on which the HughesNet dish is mounted. The 75' cable that came with the StarLink is too short to allow me to elevate the Dishy, so I've got an order in for a 150' one. I've never seen any complaints about obstructions in the OUTAGES log.

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate the effort that went into them. I'll provide an update if/when StarLink tech support gets back to me.

 

[ponytug]

I downloaded and installed Firefox on the iPhone 12 ProMax. There doesn't appear to be any option for enabling/disabling cookies. There was an option to clear cookies, so I did.

I powered down the StarLink modem and disconnected the Ethernet adapter.

Then power cycled the StarLink modem four times, and when it restarted, logged in to the STARLINK WiFi network using the iPhone app, renamed it and gave it a password, then went to the Settings menu and tried to login. That brings up a new window in Firefox, where it takes the username/password I've already set and stored in my password manager. That is NOT the WiFi username/password, FWIW. There's no way I'm typing in an 18 character string of random characters, but just to be safe, I brought up the StarLink username/password in the password manager, set the password field to "reveal", and copied the password. Then back in Firefox, ensured that the username was entered correctly, and pasted in the password. The Sign In screen blinks, The INVALID CREDENTIALS error message is displayed, the username/password fields become blank, and the only option I'm given is "LOCKED OUT?" If I play the game and request a password reset, then use the new credentials, I can login to the Starlink website using either Safari or Firefox. But I still can't login from the StarLink app: It always gives the INVALID CREDENTIALS error message. And that means I can't change any of the Settings on the StarLink modem.

I deleted the StarLink app on the iPhone, downloaded a fresh copy, and it didn't make any difference. At this point I'm out of options as to how to proceed, and I still haven't gotten a response from my email to StarLink tech support.

So for now I'm going to reinstall the Ethernet adapter and get back to where the UDMP is using the StarLink WAN connection. It may be slower than it could be, but it's vastly faster and more reliable than HughesNet ever thought of being.

I've verified that is how the two WANs are configured.

The HughesNet modem is set to use 192.168.0.1 and there is no way to change it.

The UDMP is using 192.168.10.1 as the gateway address. All of the cameras and other devices are using this address.

The StarLink modem uses 192.168.100.1 as the gateway address. When the MBP laptop is connected to the StarLink WiFi, I can enter this address in the browser address field and it brings up the StarLink admin page. However, there is no option to alter Settings, and it directs me to use the iPhone app to do so.

Before I set up the static route on the UDMP to 192.168.100.1, that address was not reachable when typed into the address bar of FireFox running on a MacBook Pro laptop that was using the 192.168.10.1 gateway WiFi.

That's encouraging, but so far I'm lucky to get 1/3 to 1/2 that.

The only obstruction is the pole on which the HughesNet dish is mounted. The 75' cable that came with the StarLink is too short to allow me to elevate the Dishy, so I've got an order in for a 150' one. I've never seen any complaints about obstructions in the OUTAGES log.

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate the effort that went into them. I'll provide an update if/when StarLink tech support gets back to me.

Well, that's great that the networks aren't on top of each other.

The login on the app is supposed to be the Starlink.com login credentials, so what you are experiencing is not right. FWIW: it works on Safari on my phone, but only in non-private mode. You are using the Starlink App to try to log into the Starlink router via the now renamed SSID, right? (I.e. factory reset, setup the local Starlink WiFi, change the phone to the the Starlink WiFi (the new SSID and password), and then in the app use the Starlink.com credentials, right?)

I am concerned that typing 192.168.100.1 into a MBP connected via the UDM Pro doesn't just work. Something isn't configured right. That should just work. How did you define 192.168.10.0/24? The defaults on the UDM Pro (or any router) should forward every packet not on your local network(s) (i.e. not 192.168.10.0) to WAN1. So the fact that the UDM Pro doesn't means something is amiss in the UDM Pro configuration, and the three places that I can think of are the WAN port definitions and the 192.168.10.0 network definition. Have you tried temporarily setting the DNS to point at 192.168.1.1? (It will wipeout functioning on Hughes, but just as a test, it should then pass 192.168.100.1 without a static link.) If that works, that points to a DNS or route (port/network) configuration issue. You do have WAN1 as default, and WAN2 as failover only, right?

I suspect that the DNS configuration is causing timeouts, slowing your network down, but I am just guessing.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

dns has nothing to do with routing, dns is not even needed or used when browsing to an ip. this sounds more like a issue with his fail over, it might be defaulting to the hughes side, which is why a static routed is needed etc, but with the unifi only doing 65mbit. i have a feeling he's got a bunch of different issues

as was said. he needs to remove everything, and add one piece at a time, till the problem is found

 

[RedNeckGeek]

You are using the Starlink App to try to log into the Starlink router via the now renamed SSID, right? (I.e. factory reset, setup the local Starlink WiFi, change the phone to the the Starlink WiFi (the new SSID and password), and then in the app use the Starlink.com credentials, right?)

Yep, that's exactly what I did. Multiple times. And that's with the Ethernet adapter disconnected.

I am concerned that typing 192.168.100.1 into a MBP connected via the UDM Pro doesn't just work. Something isn't configured right. That should just work.

OK, I paused the static route to 192.168.100.1, and now typing 192.168.100.1 into the browser address bar does take me to the StarLink router. I got the idea for the static route from a CrossTalk Solutions YouTube video. But he's using the Gen1 StarLink, so maybe that's the reason it was needed for him.

How did you define 192.168.10.0/24?

Here are the settings for 192.168.10.0/24:
Network Name Default
Router: Office DreamMachine Pro
Gateway IP/Subnet->Host Address: 192.168.10.1
Gateway IP/Subnet->NetMask:24 (249 usable hosts)
Gateway IP: 192.168.10.1
Broadcast IP: 192.168.10.255
Usable ISPs: 249
IP Range: 192.168.10.6 - 192.168.10.254
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0

Advanced Configuration is stet to Manual:
Network Type: Standard
Content Filtering: None
IGMP Snooping: unchecked
Multicast DNS: unchecked

DHCP:
DHCP Mode: DHCP Server
DHCP Server Range Start: 192.168.10.6
DHSP Server Range Stop: 192.168.10.254
DHCP Guarding: unchecked

DHCP Management:
DHCP DNS Server: Enabled
DNS Server 1: 1.1.1.1
DNS Server 2: 1.0.0.1
DHCP Default Gateway: Auto
DHCP Lease Time: 14400 seconds
Domain Name: localdomain
Custom DHCP Option: None
Option 43 Application Host Address: None
DHCP NTP Server: unchecked
DHCP Network Boot: unchecked
DHCP Time Offset: unchecked
DHCP WPAD URL: None
DHCP TFTP Server: None

IPv6
IPv6 Interface Type: None

The defaults on the UDM Pro (or any router) should forward every packet not on your local network(s) (i.e. not 192.168.10.0) to WAN1. So the fact that the UDM Pro doesn't means something is amiss in the UDM Pro configuration, and the three places that I can think of are the WAN port definitions and the 192.168.10.0 network definition. Have you tried temporarily setting the DNS to point at 192.168.1.1? (It will wipeout functioning on Hughes, but just as a test, it should then pass 192.168.100.1 without a static link.) If that works, that points to a DNS or route (port/network) configuration issue.

WAN1 settings are as follows:
Name: WAN1
Host Device: Office DreamMachine Pro
Interface: Port 9 - WAN
Expected ISP Speeds: Download 100 Mbps, Upload 12 Mbps
Advanced
Set to Auto, and all the settings are grayed out. The only thing that appears to be active is DNS Server, which is set to Auto

WAN2 settings are as follows:
Name: WAN2 FailOver
Host Device: Office Dream Machine Pro
Interface: SFP+ 1 - WAN2
Expected ISP Speeds: Download 10 Mbps, Upload 1 Mbps
Advanced
Set to Manual
The only thing changed is DNS Server, where Auto is unchecked and entries for DNS Server 1: 1.1.1.1
DNS Server 2: 1.0.0.1

IPv4 Connection: DHCPv4
IPv6 Connection: Disabled

You do have WAN1 as default, and WAN2 as failover only, right?

WAN1 is the default WAN, and is where the StarLink modem is attached.
WAN2 is set to Failover Only (the only setting that the UDMP supports.

I suspect that the DNS configuration is causing timeouts, slowing your network down, but I am just guessing.

After disabling the static route and copying all that config info, I used the StarLink app to run another set of speed tests.

From the iPhone to the StarLink Router WiFi:
iPhone->Internet: Down - 167 Mbps, Up - 5 Mbps
StarLink Router->Internet: Down - 154 Mbps, Up - 7 Mbps
iPhone->StarLink Router: Down - 612 Mbps, Up - 296 Mbps

From the iPhone to the nearest Unifi Access Point WiFi:
iPhone->Internet: Down - 51 Mbps, Up - 10 Mbps
StarLink Router->Internet: Down - 130 Mbps, Up - 2 Mbps
iPhone->StarLink Router: Down - 75 Mbps, Up - 49 Mbps

Seems like the bottleneck is with the Unifi network. When I get a chance, I'll run an Ethernet cable to the MBP and see if a wired connection improves things.

Thanks again for your help, Peter!

 

[RedNeckGeek]

I was able to hook up an Ethernet cable between the Unifi switch and a MacBook Pro via a USB/Ethernet dongle on the MBP.

There is no version of the StarLink app for the MBP that I could find, so I downloaded the Ookla Speedtest app on both the iPhone and MBP and used it instead. Speedtest lets you pick a server, so I used Zeta Broadband in Rancho Murieta, CA for all tests.

Here are the results.

iPhone -> Internet via Ookla Speedtest via Unifi WiFi Access Point
Down 46.4 Mbps, up 4.30 Mbps

iPhone -> Internet via Ookla Speedtest via StarLink Wifi
Down 192 Mbps, up 5.73 Mbps

MBP -> Internet via Ookla Speedtest via Ethernet
Down 73.8 Mbps, up 12.1 Mbps

MBP -> Internet Ookla Speedtest via Unifi WiFi Access Point
Down 59.4 Mbps, up 10.5 Mbps

MBP -> Internet Ookla Speedtest via StarLink WiFi
Down 107 Mbps, Up 7.24 Mbps

In all cases, accessing the internet through the StarLink modem WiFi is the fastest method.

Accessing the internet via Ethernet cable on the MBP is faster than using the Unifi WiFi, but it's way in the dust compared to the iPhone using StarLink Wifi.

A system report on the MBP reveals that the Ethernet is 10/100/1000, so I don't think that's the bottleneck.

The WiFi in the MBP is 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac, so I don't think that's the problem, either.

The system report shows the MBP accessing the Unifi WiFi network via 802.11n on channel 48. According to this Intel link, one mode of operation could limit speed to 72.2 Mbps, but I'm beyond my depth trying to understand that information.

I'm using Unifi UAP-AC-Pro access points, which do support 802.11ac.

The same system report shows the MBP accessing the StarLink WiFi network via 802.11ac, which could help to explain the better performance of the StarLink WiFi network.

Did some poking around in the settings for the Unifi AP, and switched it from channel 48 to channel 165. Once re-provisioned, the system report showed the MBP accessing the WiFi 5.0 GHz band using 802.11ac. This was much later in the day, and speeds on both the iPhone and MBP using the Unifi Wifi were down quite a bit from earlier. Switching the MBP back to the StarLink WiFi, speeds were also down, but not by as much. Same deal with the iPhone. So the same basic trends noted above still applied, just at a proportionately lower range of speeds. Ah, the dangers of single point sampling.

Right about now it's Miller time, so if I get a chance tomorrow I'll run another set of tests and see if the results differ. But for now, the StarLink Wifi is still the speed champion by a wide margin.

 

[ponytug]

@RedNeckGeek That's great progress. The UDM Pro should be running 1Gbit+ in base mode, and at least 400Mbit/s, even with deep packet inspection turned on, so you shouldn't be challenging it.

Is it possible you have a bad Ethernet device on your network that is blasting packets? It is rare, but it happens. Have a look at the usage charts on the UDM Pro and see if you are experiencing high bandwidth; if so, I would drill down to make sure that the bandwidth is legitimate, such as your NAS backing up your spouse's computer, or someone gaming downstairs.

Another thought: Is it possible that the cable between the UDM Pro and the Ethernet adapter is bad/subpar(not Cat6/Cat6A)/kinked? I have seen "good" cables get (badly) bent, and no longer function at full speed. I would also think about getting a bright flashlight and a magnifying glass and checking all four of the contacts (Ethernet adapter, both ends of the cable, and port 9 on the UDM Pro) for any gunk, pin misalignment, or bad height.

Enjoy that Miller!

All the best,

Peter

 

[bdhsfz6]

The 75' cable that came with the StarLink is too short to allow me to elevate the Dishy, so I've got an order in for a 150' one. I've never seen any complaints about obstructions in the OUTAGES log.

I ordered the 150' cable when I ordered my Starlink system 18 months ago. The kit arrived in March without the longer cable so I had to install it temporarily with the 75' cable. I just received the shipping notice for the 150' cable yesterday.

Hopefully, your wait won't be as long.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Well, yes and no. I'm sure they will redesign it for in-motion use to have a lower profile and possibly be able to hold position with gyroscopic stabilizers or something. But even absent that the current dish probably does OK. It's phased array antenna system has the ability to focus in on multiple satellites at once as they are moving. It has dozens of receptors so it can lock on pretty well. I'd suspect it would do better than you think.

But 100% agree that the current 'portability' offering is intended static use in multiple locations, not in-motion use.

Dishy may be able to handle the simple rolling motion of a boat but not necessarily a 180 degree wind / tide shift when at anchor.

I installed my dish is several locations and each time it was moved, it took several minutes to re-adjust. There is also a limited range of motion for the mechanism. It will not rotate a full 360 degrees.

 

[BigBlue1]

I ordered the 150' cable when I ordered my Starlink system 18 months ago. The kit arrived in March without the longer cable so I had to install it temporarily with the 75' cable. I just received the shipping notice for the 150' cable yesterday.

Hopefully, your wait won't be as long.

That doesn't make sense. I'm not sure any orders were even accepted until early 2021. And until Oct/Nov of 2021 Starlink was shipping the first gen round dish with non-removable cable. It wasn't until the rectangular dish came out that the removable cable and 150' optional cable was offered. Plus, Starlink doesn't let you pre-order accessories before you actually place your dish order (a deposit is not an order).

 

[California]

Dishy may be able to handle the simple rolling motion of a boat but not necessarily a 180 degree wind / tide shift when at anchor.

How big is that antenna? Maybe mount multiple antennas aimed in various directions?

 

[BigBlue1]

How big is that antenna? Maybe mount multiple antennas aimed in various directions?

Not possible with Starlink. The Starlink system includes a phased array dish/antenna with proprietary connectors and needing specific control by the system controller. Starlink will come out with an in-motion setup at some point. They will probably utilize a partial dome phased array so that it can get a very broad view of the sky even while moving/rocking. Just my speculation based on what I know of the current system.

 

[ponytug]

Not possible with Starlink. The Starlink system includes a phased array dish/antenna with proprietary connectors and needing specific control by the system controller. Starlink will come out with an in-motion setup at some point. They will probably utilize a partial dome phased array so that it can get a very broad view of the sky even while moving/rocking. Just my speculation based on what I know of the current system.

You can lookup the flat plate mobile design(s) that they have filed with the FCC for mobile use.

New Starlink User Dish With Smaller Antenna Pops Up In FCC Filing

In an FCC filing, SpaceX has asked the Commission to let it test a new user terminal for its Starlink internet service.

wccftech.com

Then there is the antenna that popped up on the Starship;

Starlink Should Leverage Air Force Tests To Bring WiFi On Airplanes

SpaceX has confirmed that it is testing Starlink for commercial passenger planes. This service can leverage previous Air Force test experience.

wccftech.com

Leaving aside the important wind and rain pressure forces on a mobile antenna, I suspect much of the tweaks are actually to the firmware for computing and tracking the satellites. With a home unit, one could assume fixed location, and mostly fixed orientation, with mobile, aviation and marine uses, the algorithms need to be able to converge to stable solutions at high velocities, and fast yaw and pitch rates. I suspect, but don't know that the latter two are the more problematic. When you think about how fast the angle to a satellite changes as degrees per second or radians per second (its velocity and your velocity), and then think about the angular speed of a hard right turn as angular velocity to the satellite, the latter is pretty high. (In degrees or radian per second) Rough seas on a small craft wouldn't be trivial.

I have zero inside knowledge, so this is all a WAG.

Fun to watch.

All the best,

Peter

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Got this today

If you are receiving this email, you are currently on the waitlist for Starlink in your area. We are launching additional satellites as quickly as we can to expand network capacity in your region, and will fulfill your order as soon as possible.

In the meantime, we are now offering Starlink for RVs at any destination where Starlink provides active coverage. Currently there is no waitlist - all orders will be shipped shortly after the order is placed, including to "Waitlist" areas on the Starlink Availability Map. You can pause and un-pause service at any time.

Users can expect high speed, low latency internet in areas marked "Available", and notably slower speeds during events with many collocated users, or during hours of peak usage in areas marked as "Waitlist”, where residential users are prioritized. Prioritizing residential makes it possible to offer Starlink for RVs immediately with minimal impact to the most loaded portions of the network.

You can order Starlink for RVs directly from www.starlink.com/rv or by selecting the "+" button under "Your Starlinks" on your account page. To learn more about Starlink for RVs, please read our FAQ page.

Thank you for being a supporter of Starlink!

The Starlink team

 

[Alan W.]

I got the same email. Sounds like those of us on the wait list are gonna get shafted.